"French Command Titles Question" Topic

What are the appropriate titles for the following commanders:

brigade general
division general
corps general (I assume that this is a Marshal).
army general (Marshall, certainly)

Is Major General a title used by the French during the Napoleonic era?

Would you believe

General de Brigade
General de Division
General de Corps d'Armee
General d'Armee

rather obviously?

General de Division was equivalent rank to major general

Marshal (de l'Empire) was a honorific title bestowed by Boney on the favoured and the trusted. There were 26 in all

Here's a list link

General-de-Brigade
General-de-Division
Corps could also be commanded by a General-de-Division e.g. III & IV Corp in 1815
Regards
Steve

Should type faster

Our Connard seems an Anglophile.

There was no Napoleonic French Army rank above General de Division. Corps commanders were either of such rank, or were (also) Marshals of the Empire. I don't think there were any field commanding Marshals who were not also Generals de Division. Given that "Marshal" was, technially, a political appointment, I can't tell you if there was a direct connection. But the term "Marshal" in Napoleonic usage had an almost exclusively military connotation--with a few exceptions.

Thus, if two corps commanders on the field of battle met and had a difference of opinion on how to proceed, there is no doubt in my mind that the Marshal could pull rank over the General de Division. I'm sure guys like Scotty Bowden could cite specific instances.

So it goes:

Chef de Battalion (Battalion Commander)

Major (a mostly administrative rank revived by Napoleon in mid-era)

Lieutenant Colonel – I'm pretty sure the French had this.

Colonel – regimental commander

General de Brigade – brigade commander

General de Division – Division command and up.

The only way for Napoleon to promote a General de Division would be for him to make him a Marshal. Of course, Napoleon was also free to make Poniatowski a Marshal of the Empire, while Poniatowski had never been a GdD.

When the Grande Armee was first formed in 1804, and proceeded to glory for six years, almost all its corps commanders were of the Marshalate. In future, with more foreign troops involved and many more corps d'armee, many commanders were just Generals de Division.

Hope this helps :-)

One correction:

Napoleon could certainly reward a General de Division in other ways than just a Marshal's baton, like making him a baron or count or awarding annuities related or unrelated to the other favors. These were not military promotions, however. If, in the hypothetical scenario proposed above relating to two corps commanders, both were Marshals, one could not pull rank over the other by being a "count" as opposed to a "duke."

Command conflict between Marshals usually related to specific command assignments dictated by the Emperor. See Lannes and Bessiers at Aspern-Essling, and also any high command (erroneously) assigned to Napoleon's brother-in-law, Murat, who screwed up every strategic assignment he ever received.

Ha

Our Connard seems an Anglophile.

Notre Connard est neutre. Beware of seeing a conclusion and jumping to it.

Take it up with (among others) Bruce Quarrie, possibly Paddy Griffith, and these chaps

link

I'm sure the Napoleon guide and Griffith would be more willing to argue the case than I. Quarrie alas can't.

If you need to be right, I shan't stand in your way. I get tired of being run down by 'experts'

There is an excellent French ranks and equivalents in one of the appendices of Col Elting's Swords.

The rank/title of Major General was Berthier's as Chief of Staff of the Grande Armee.

The term 'lieutenant general' was also used during both the Revolution and Empire.

'Governor' was also used as a term for the commander of a fortress.

Sincerely,
K

Everything i've read backs up what Widowson says. I've never heard of a Napoleonic general with the rank of General d'Armee of General de Corps d'Armee, and Marshal was a political appointment, not a rank. Everything i've read concerning the Marshals, including Elting and Chandler, have backed this up.

General de Brigade was denoted by a gold sash flecked with blue, General de division by a gold sash flecked with red, and Marshal with a gold sash. ADCs to the various ranks wore armbands in the rank 'colour', with the ADC to a marshal wearing a white armband.

Connard,

No offense was intended. Please don't take any. I don't have a "need" to be right. I just happen to know a few things. I always share here on this forum. That's what it's for, correct?

I made another mistake in my first post. The ranks of Chef de Battalion and Lieutenant Colonel were the same thing--I think. The French used "Chef de Battalion." I'm still a little unclear on what, exactly, the French used Majors for.

The title général en chef did exist, it was a général de division who commanded an army, like Bonaparte in Italie, he would sign as général en chef.

As fas r as I remeber the général en chef did wear a different sash und feathers on the hat.

The French major was the equivalent of a British lieutenant colonel.

General de Brigade = Major General
General de Division = Lieutenant General

Marshals sash was I believe gold flecked with white.

"There was no Napoleonic French Army rank above General de Division."

Hence the British continuing to refer to General Bonaparte to avoid legitimising the Emperor.