"Would you game the Trojan War?" Topic

At the risk of imposing my current fad on TMP even more….
If not: because you don't do Ancients (or more controversally, fantasy)
:because there are no rule sets that adequately mirror the type of combat on the plains of Ilium (skirmish/ duels between champions)
:there are no figures/ figures in your scale you like
:you're allergic to large wooden horses
: others?????

Play it? Probably.

Buy figures? Doubtful.

Why? Just doesn't appeal to me that much.

Call it my particular Achilles heel vis a vis gaming but I have multiple reasons why I wouldn't game Troy.

1) I'd need another rule set and I couldn't pick up a free one as I'm averse to Greeks bearing gifts.

2) I couldn't play it as a PBM or e-game because I can think of few enough folk who would appreciate emails marked as 'Trojan attached'

3) Homeric games are wont to garner silly comments about the Simpsons or Homoeroticism.

4) If you did it as a demo, you'd be beset with folk saying 'so which one is Brad Pitt?'

5) It would take too long to play.

I am collecting figures for it already and will be gaming it when I have enough little guys with paint on them. Probably using a variant on WAB.

BUT only in Homeric tradition with the direct involvement of gods, special events, "uber characters" and everything that makes hardline Ancients players cringe. As a strict ancients period it has no interest for me, but as Homeric Fantasy…….oh yes!!

Yes. Homeric, historical or fantasy versions.

We are this Wednesday.

Guy

We did for a couple of years using WAB in 15mm . The OG and Museum figures were fantastic to paint up , lots of well defined raised edges and details to pick up the paint.

looked great en masse across the table with some cool terain in the background

i like the above mention of intervention of the Gods

i wish i hadnt sold the lot on Ebay out of boredom

cheers Tom

I would definitely game this period in 15mm. The OG15 figures look good.

In out club we have an ongoing project of gaming the Trojan war. We are in the process of converting the GW LOTR system to the Trojan war ( Well.. somebody has already done the major part for us… link )
We are now in the process of figuring out how to do divine intervention. According to the Illiad, the Gods would interveen by either casting some kinds of magic spell to influence the outcome of a fight or by interveening directly as a possesion of one of the participans or appearing on the battlefield in disguise helping out their favorit part. Now we just have to figuring out a system to simulate these Godlike interventions

regards
thomas

May I point you in the direction of Wargames Illustrated issue no's 149 and 151.
Article for using Warhammer Ancient Battles for the Trojan war complete with army lists and god intervention cards.

Anyone know if those 2 articles (WI 149 & 151) are available for download anywhere? Might be good for ideas. How to involve the gods so that they influence, but not determine, the game is something that I have been considering for a while now.

I am finding it hard to get a balance between the power they should/could wield (They are Gods after all) and the need to keep the game based on the actions of the troops and heroes. Trying to avoid the "first one to play the God card wins" syndrome.

You might like to browse the Trojan_warfare Yahoo group. Things have wound down over there in recent months, but there is a large number of photos and files of interest. Tell herkos_akhaion, the moderator, that your pal rddfxx sent you.

Link:

link

Yes, have the figures. Not interested in a Homeric fantasy though, but rather something more historical…

Damon.

I have a few hundred Redoubt's in the basement waiting for the day I start that project.

If you are just interested in a straight "historical" army, then neither side is all that interesting. There are many more "interesting" chariot era armies.

However, to play it straight, that is to do it EXACTLY as it is presented in the Iliad, is fascinating.
My favorite book is where Diomedes pulls out a can of Whup Ass on the Gods! He forces Aphrodite to flee, sends Ares crying to Daddy, and only stops when Apollo asks "Do you REALLY want to do this" "Err, no Sir. Oh look! Trojan warriors over there!" "Good man."

The gods should be in 28mm scakle, and EXACTLY the same size as your warriors. If they were larger, how could Athene be Diomedes' charioteer?

Redoubt has a nice set of rules for skirmish gaming.
I am not happy with anybody's divine intervetion rules, including my own.
In my opinion, without divine intervention, you are not doing the Iliad, or the Trojan War for that matter. Without the Immortals, it is merely a tawdry unseemly brawl over a . (Rhymes with "hut".)

Come to think of it, it is the same thing WITH the Immortals…

I keep thinking I should because I live in Troy, NY

I love the look of the period, just need a good set of rules and an equally interested opponent.

Historical would be cool, but I agree with what John the OFM says about using the Gods. Could be alot of fun.

I have considered trying to do this with HOTT

Bill

"Interesting" is a matter of perspective. I find most Chariot armies to not be interesting, so its the history and figures that differentiate the period (for me). I like the idea of Bronze Age Greeks, more interesting than say Egyptians, Hittites, Mittanii, Babylonians, and whatever other chariot armies one can think of.

I like my fantasy and history strictly seperate. When I play with historical figures, I do so for the history. When I play with fantasy figures, just the same.

Damon.

"The gods should be in 28mm scakle, and EXACTLY the same size as your warriors. If they were larger, how could Athene be Diomedes' charioteer?"

In my games, the models of the immortals are 54s, developed from Bronze Miniatures generic male and female blanks. They are markers more than anything else. I typically use cards for gods effects and the big "markers" are there to add color and a certain imposing presence, not to mention the fun I had making them. Using 25/28s would work as well, especially if you are modeling an actual appearance in human form on the field of battle.

It is aslow moving project that I have been picking away at for probablby 15 years. I hope to do it for next years HMGS convention season

"Come to think of it, it is the same thing WITH the Immortals…"

With more s. Olympian s. It all started with three of them playing Olympian Idol, after all. That, and the Original Snub.

Allen

It's a project i'm working on- I'd like it to be heroic without being fantasy- the dice are Gods enough!

Might have a look at the LOTR thing- but soften it down a tad.

I have tried the Trojan wars with DBA but much prefer to play The Iliad with Hordes of the Thing rules.
link
Various HOTT types convert to the troops in the poem.
Gods are Gods
Odysseus is played as a Magician (able to effect things at a distance)
Ajax is behemoth
lots of heros
Achilles is a Paladin
Myrmidons fight as Warband
Cassandra and Laocoön are Clerics
etc

The whole war? That's like what – 10 years or so? How about smaller seaborne raids on coastal cities/towns? There are a set of rules from Wargames Illustrated which includes "god" cards, etc. I haven't used it yet. I also have the "Before the Gates of Troy" rules from Redoubt – again not tried. I do plan on using the "Duel" rules from WAB's "Siege & Conquest." I also plan to game the Seven Against Thebes, the Epigoni, & stuff like the "war" between the Kalydonians & Kouretes; oh, and the one where Nestor off'd a pair of chariot-riding Siamese twins when he was but a wee lad. So – the answer to the topic question is, Yes.

"The whole war? That's like what – 10 years or so? "
A bit like playing 'The Maple Leaf Forever'.
Most musicians get tired after a half hour or so.

Maybe a skirmish game? But really, I'd rather have a fantasy version. And at that point, well, I might as well just play Songs of Blades and Heroes to do the same job.

I have designed and played a number of scenarios, mostly Iliad-based. I really like Dean's idea of cruising outside the box and playing something else in the mythic cycle. The challenge for me is taking what I've done and putting it together into a coherent campaign game or campaign system.

I would enjoy playing skirmish or large scale, but definetly needs the meddling of the gods aspect.

Yes

I'd game 2 people crossing the street, so the trojan war I'd not ignore

I'd be interested in how to handle the Olympian interference aspect in a miniatures game or a boardgame.

Also, I think the Judgement of Paris would be an excellent subject for a live role-playing game.

Much preferable to Bob Cordey's Naked Airsoft, anyway.

All the best,

John.

Yes, I have approx 100 plus Trojans, and 250 plus greeks (28mm), all the ships, the table and a huge 25mm City of Troy I bought for a small fortune, and I use the Homeric Hack rules, since the publisher also made the city…and not to rub it in, my city was used in a Geico commercial.
So yea.
His site is
classicalhack.com

TMP link

tom

I will be running a Trojan Game at Fall In 2010. Not sure what I will be doing but probably you can expect a building or two and some black ships. Maybe a big raid on Trojan allies. Using Homeric Hack.

The link to the LOTR adaption seems dead – anyone have the rules for this adaptation on line? Thx!

Yeah, not planning to tho'

I would play it, although I respect the choice of surviving veterans of the Trojan War not to.

I understand it was a traumatic experience, and at least one returned to fins his wife surrounded by unwanted suitors.

I'd game it a little closer to the movie in appearance (just to deal with the 'which one is Brad Pitt?' crowd), but you gotta put the gods in!

Yes, I would game it.

Rules set would be Redoubt's Before the Walls of Troy.

I like the choices in both 15 and 28mm, but space limits me to the former.

Only allergies to damned Ohio River Valley weather/pollen/whatever.

So, I want to work on this, using the Redoubt rules, and keeping it very small. Perhaps a few Troy-like buildings from Baueda.

Someone on the Saga forum has done a set of battleboards for Achaeans, Trojans, Pylians, etc.
Sags is perfect for this war – lots of heroic actions.

Yes, I have played in a number of times. Got interested in doing it some 10 years ago.

I should first mention I am biased, as its one of my favorite periods.

Done it in 28mm as a game at Salute (and at Partizan and a Society of Ancients gaming day) a fair few years back, fighting the main battles outside the city walls and also a skirmish within the city.

Will redo the whole setting, adding additional forces (which Scarab will make) and the Greek camp on the beach for a War & Conquest (ruleset) campaign series of articles (which will like all our army lists, be free online) when I get time (or someone else jumps in and does it first!)

Like the OFM says- it has to have the Gods and our game at Salute also linked history through to fantasy- we added as a separate table, the underworld, and had chariot racing alongside another battle.

Sadly I don't have any pictures of the mammoth setting, it was circa 1999-2000 (I think!) when I put the game together although a few pictures of the terrain and Grand Manner made walls of Troy can be found in the War & Conquest rulebook.
Part of the walls have also been used as a Greek city for the War & Conquest 'Battle of Amphilpolis' here link so they have plenty of uses

So yes, look forward to refighting it all again.
Figure wise, whilst we (Scarab) are doing our own range, in 28mm at the time I used mainly Foundry and some Redoubt. Old Glory have also added a range and I have a couple of packs of those as well.

kind regards

Rob Broom
scarabminiatures.com
warandconquest.co.uk

Fight for Helen, after all these years?

Is it Terry Pratchett who wrote about her: "These types go down at 35".

I have some figures from the Trojan War era but oddly don't play the War itself but the instead play the collapse of the Aegean civilization following the War.
And I only game in skirmish form I don't have a lot of interest in gaming the large battles of the ancient period.

Who brought this tread back to life?

Yes I would and am doing it with Chiltrun Gods and all. Homeric Hack is my choice for rules with God Options.

As for this: (h4> darclegion on 18 Jun 2009 1:07 p.m. PST wrote:

Yes, I have …..and a huge 25mm City of Troy I bought for a small fortune, and I use the Homeric Hack rules, since the publisher also made the city…and not to rub it in, my city was used in a Geico commercial.
So yea.
His site is
classicalhack.com

tom

I can not remember if I told you before tom but I envy you sooo much. I knew Phil had it up for sale but did not pull the trigger before you got in. I still give him a hard time about it.

As for the Trojan Horse yes I have one and each game the trojans have the option of allowing it to be put inside the gates. To this day they have not looked that gift horse in the mouth.

VR
James Mattes

VR
James Mattes

I am working towards it. Bronze Age warfare is my current obsession.

Presently painting Trojans and Myceaneans for a participation game at Salute. Based on the somewhat a-historical, but great novels by David Gemmel.
After that both armies will be expanded to bigger armies.

Mostly Redoubt figures ( they are simply fantastic!)with a few Foundry ones.
And yes, the Trojan Horse means Trojan cavalry, the last King of Troy is an Achean fighting for Troy and Andromache survives the war to live happily ever after with her lover Aeneas/Helikaon. If she manages to 'Escape From Troy' at Salute that is.

As the OP wrote, you can do this period as strictly historical or with leavenings of Fantasy.

There's something for everyone.

which trojan war are we talking about?

the one based on archeological interetation of what actually was at Troy?

Or the one based on the Illiad?

Or some other one entirely made up a-fresh?

I want to use the one based on denys Page's seminal work.

All treachery & revolt. the Hittites trying to bolster allies but evil Mycenaeans & Egyptians trying to horn in.

And then the Sea Peoples…….and SILENCE.

One of my favorites. I always keep an eye out for rules that could be useful – both for historical games and mythological ones.