"The NY to GIB run" Topic

O401 am at MOMP Escort Grp A-1 hands off to Escort Group B-90. Commander Lance smithe Hardaway paces the cold steel deck of the bridgewing of the sloop IBIS. Finaly conformation that his unusualy large group have taken the stations he asighned them, Including the new escort carrier Ladysmith. The Next 8 hrs pass inrelative quite untill just after Noon. Then for reasons that will never be known Capitano Arigio Bataglia surfaces his Marconi class Sub 500 yards directly in front of the destroyer HMS Impertanant going to battle speed she hits the Italian Boat with a storm of fire . The Italian Boats CPT aand bridge crew die instantly all her deck guns are knocked out she can't dive.
she is abandoned on fire from stem to stern rapidly sinking.
30 minutes later the military class trawler HMS Fusilier Picks up a contact via HF/DF on a ground wave behind the convoy, Hardaway detaches HMS Defiant to run down the track.
The destroyer catches the sqealer U2201 on the surface the resulting gunfire drive the boat under and the destroyer drops a Depthcharge every few minutes for the next 2 hrs to keep the pig boat honest then rejoins. The remainder the day passes peacfully in the night. The dawn however brings the ever fearfull luftwaffe and an attack by 5 ju-88s. The Jerries don't know about the Ladysmith and she manages to get 2 Martlets off . The martlets are hungry and they tear into the 88s destroying one and damageing another. The germans are nothing if not brave and push on thru the deadly flack that reduces thier number to 2 as they reach the convoy. but death reaches out to the heroic merchant seaman , three ships are hit the first is the Norwegian grain ship halvesfiord she suffers damage to her engineering plant and losses 3 knots, the next Victim is the British war class steamer "War winds" she too suffers a speed loss, The large americam collier "Ester" suffers a major fire amidships and loss of half her speed she staggers out of line to avoid being run down by the ships behind her.The brave German fliers do not escape and die to a man before clearing the convoys flack. Hours have passed and tho the Esters fires have been contained she cannot keep up it is ordered the convoy reduce speed to protect the damaged War Winds and Halvsfiord. Ester will have to make port as best she can and Cmdr Hardaway doesnot releas a ship to provide escort. As the night of the second day bears down on the lonely ships it brings a stiffing sea and cold with poor visability. And in the Dark a wolf waits silently patiently . Fire and water tower several hundred feet over the dieing hull of the most starbord ship of the first row , the hapless merchant steamer minitor slides under the cold Atlantic in less then 4 minutes. The destroyer wilomet fires starshell that iluminates the U3303 but the boat dives befor wilomet can come with in gun range .Working in consort with the Flower class corvette Cammomile which keeps a solid asdic lock on the doomed sub .
Wilomets second standard pattern scores forcing the sub into and uncontroled dive that crushes her hul like a paper cup. vengense is served cold. In the early hase of dawn the feared uboat ace known only as Korvetcapitan Dave struck sending the portside ship of collum 2 down evaded dove under the convoy to strike again from starbord sending the 4th and last merchant to the bottom The Germans brokeoff as we where nearing solid Air cover and more escorts at GOMP…game played using Mal wrights Deadly waters convoy of 18 merchants and 11 escorts Vs 10 subs I axis player 1 allied player and myself Game played in just over 2 hrs…Mikey

This Smythe-Hardaway sounds like a fantastic bloke. Jolly good game what. Having an escort carrier is a excellent asset! Looking forward to the next chance to have a go at the perfidious Kommodore von A and his wolf pack.

Sounds like you guys had a good game.

Smsythe-Hardaway is a whoose!

He should have wiped out the entire Kriegsmarine!

"three ships are hit the first is the Norwegian grain ship halvesfiord she suffers damage to her engineering plant and losses 3 knots, the next Victim is the British war class steamer "War winds" she too suffers a speed loss"

I've not read, or seen, the rules that you're using, but I'd be interested to know how a merchant ship that has been hit, and that has suffered damage to its engines, can "lose 3 knots"? I'd have thought that engine damage would either cause the engines to stop, or, if the damage to the engine room wasn't significant, and the engines weren't damaged, wouldn't cause the engines to stop, in which case full speed would be maintained.

Damage to the "engineering plant" could include, I suppose, if a motor ship, damage to the fuel lines, damage to the engines themselves, or damage to the propellor shaft. All of these would entail the engines being stopped until the problem was repaired, except for the last. However, the shaft wouldn't really count as "engineering plant", I'd have thought. In any case, a reduction of 3 knots wouldn't have made sufficient difference if the shaft had been damaged. You'd have had to reduce TO 3 knots! For a steam ship, steam pipes being damaged, or boilers being damaged, or the engines themselves being damaged would be "engineering plant" damage, but again, I'd have thought these would cause complete stoppage until repairs were affected, or reduction to minimum revs, ie. to about 2 or 3 knots.
In any case I can't imagine damage to "engineering plant" to a 9-12 knot ship that would cause a 3 knot reduction due to enemy action in such conditions.
I'd be grateful if people could enlighten me.

Ho Hum!

Is this to enlighten? Or symbolic of boredom? Or symbolic of irritation? Or …. what?
Surely if people are interested enough in naval or maritime history to do naval wargaming they're interested enough to get things right, and would be interested enough to want to understand how ships work? At least, I'd have thought so.

Oh, sorry, you're the author of the rules. I didn't realise. I'd have thought, in which case, that you'd have made a mature response to a reasoned criticism.

I'm not speaking for Mal and not trying to pick a fight or insult you, but to me your initial comments came off as pendantic – the sort that argues over which type of paint burns 3 degrees hotter than another. Just an impression…

Editor, if this is out of place please delete.

Chouan I am always happy to answer genuine questions on all sites I go too. But I am not interested in getting into arguments. Your posts are worded in such a way, that one can only presume you are trying to pick a fight. If you were to perhaps adopt a less agressive form, it would be much better for all concerned.

As it is your posts always raise the question in my mind as to I wonder if there has ever been anything that Chouan actually likes or approves of?

Yes. Sure. I am the author. But knowing that its hard to get more than two wargamers to come to total agreement on any issue of detail, (After more than 50 years in the hobby) you will find that I have written my rules in such a manner that I offer my solutions, but then invite the players to use other rule sets for combat resolution if they prefer that. I have not written them in a manner of expecting or compelling the reader to have to follow only my ideas. The opportunities are presented for them to use their own, or those of other people.

So even there, I dont seek argument. But do invite people to think, and to follow their own opinions.

Daniel, suggesting that bomb or torpedo damage to a Merchant ship wouldn't cause a small speed reduction is hardly the same as arguing about how hot paint burns, it is to do with a fundamental difference between the design, construction and operation of Merchant ships and that of warships. Because warships are laid out completely differently to Merchant ships, damage from enemy action could cause a small reduction in their speed. I have explained in some detail why that would not be the case in a Merchant ship. Warships have, for example multiple screws, seperate and sometimes multiple, boiler rooms, when steamships. Even when motor ships, they usually, unless they are very small, have more than one engine, and often more than one engine room. I don't think that it is pedantry to point out this difference when theses rules are supposed to recreate the convoy operations of the Battle of the Atlantic, where Merchant ships are the whole crux of the Battle. If the rule-writer doesn't think that this fundamental difference is important, then, it seems to me, that there is a fundamental flaw in the rules.

Mal Wright, you have stated repeatedly that you don't seek argument; you certainly don't receive criticism very well! You seem to assume that, because I have criticised an aspect of your rules that I am seeking argument, or that I'm picking a fight. An accusation that you've raised before because I didn't agree with you. I didn't realise when I read the report, which I read out of interest, that these were your rules. You seem to think that I have engaged in a personal vendetta! I merely raised some questions about how a small speed reduction to Merchant ships from enemy action was reached as a "solution", as you put it, in the rules. I then explained how and why this was unsatisfactory in terms of realism.
As far as Naval operational jargon goes, you seem to have all the detail, and as far as Naval operations themselves, it all seems to be there. But, for a set of rules that seems to seek to acheive such a high level of realism, to seemingly not have that same level of understanding, or perhaps knowledge, or indeed interest, in the ships that were the very purpose of the convoys themselves, seems curious at best.
I wrote in a genuinely open and unconfrontational way. I presented my criticism, I asked for enlightenment, and I explained and detailed my reasoning.
The reply was "Ho Hum!"
The readership can decide who was trying to pick a fight….

It sounds like you should be writing a set.