"Is it greasing palms?" Topic

As for Goldwyrm's comments. I would still invite you to show me an instance where the best game of the year, was really the best game, not the best game that gave away the freebies.

All judging for awards is subjective, so there is no correct answer. What is the "Best Game of the Year"? That would need to be decided.

I would say the closest way to gauge a best game of the year is to use retail sales that put a game in someone's hands, not sales to distributors. People put their money where their mouth is. No judging is required, no voter base demographics issues, no internet polling hooliganism, etc.

Been flawed or controversial since I first became involved as a gamer in the 1970s. Back then ballot box stuffing was common by companies to get their product nominanted.

My colonial rules were nominanted by a company wanting to push their colonial range. Their staff did a lot of promoting. Since private gamer individuals could vote in this phase.

Then when it came time (which was only done by members of the designer academy( to vote a major company with a lot of employees paid arranged for each person at the company to be a member. So that their products had an distinct edge.

I have two points--
1-Who appoints the jurors and is it the same seven every year??
2-Eight sets of rules does seem excessive especially for a small publisher--Why not have an initial stage where one or two games are submitted for an initial overview and if deemed 'worthy' the second stage judging is done in full by each juror..
That way everyone gets a chance and if you do actually have a rubbish/not fasionable game then you havn't lost out…

I think judging what is 'best' from an artistic or subjective viewpoint is very dodgy..I have seen many games win in shows which are frankly tat and others which are brilliant lose out….It is all too random..

archstanton73,

Good points. Perhaps to be really fair the group having the awards should pay the judges out of their own budget for room and transportation coats to get together on a weekend and only request ONE sample. If a certain judge can't make that weekend date then find another judge. The sample could be passed around the room for the judges to view.

If the group can't afford to host this sort of overnight deal then they shouldn't promote it as something special. Be honest and say it's a B S award.

<<
Yep…but they dont get paid by the people who's cases they are hearing! Or is it based on the Roman system? The one who pays the most to the most, wins?>>

This would be a civil case so the evidence would be provided by those in the case.

As to whether the best game wins is not an objective argument it is based upon opinion. There have been some great products that have won in the past. There have been popular products to win and relatively unknown products to win also. Like Splintered Light Miniatures, who also said it was good for his business.

Sure, they could send take one product. The non-profit would then be required to mail it to all the judges at the non-profits expense. The judges would then have to review it and in a revolving deadline to insure the next judge receives it in time to review it and pass it along.

The judges don't live in the same state in most cases. So the non-profit can't fly them in to review a game.

Most of the judges are in the gaming industry and do it because they love gaming.You do know they could get most of these products for free at Origins just by asking the manufacturer? And not by saying they were an Origins judge, but just because of who they are or by swapping one of their products. They aren't in it for the swag.

It is a thankless job were you get to deal with sad comments like this thread. Because you picked x over y. Read Rudy's comments above as their aren't changes that have ever worked because it is subjective.

An Origins Award is the highest award in many aspects of gaming. The only award that is better for marketability is the award in Essen for board games.

If you can't afford to send 8 copies at your cost of manufacture. Then you aren't a company but a vanity press.

GAMA is a non-profit. They don't have money.

There is no retailers sales data to see what game made into the end consumers hand.

The 2008 winners
link

KnightTemplarr,

Are you trying to be funny with your post above or were you actually serious? I clicked the link which you posted. I do not know one person that has played or bought anything on that list. Many I have not even heard of. They might all be the best thing since sliced bread but… how come no one knows who/what they are? Origins Marketability? I don't think so.

"If you can't afford to send 8 copies at your cost of manufacture. Then you aren't a company but a vanity press."

Either the Perrys are: (a) "vanity" company or (b) they don't care anything about the Origins thing. My bet is on (b). :)

Avidgamer the Origins Awards aren't just for historicals.

Check Your 6 is featured on TMP quite often and so is Splintered Light.

A foreign company not in the distribution chain like the Perry's would indeed garner very little from an Origins Award.

I can't say much if you haven't heard of: Battletech, Legend of the Five Rings, Starcraft.

"Check Your 6 is featured on TMP quite often and so is Splintered Light."

I suppose I don't see everything then. Perhaps it isn't my cup of tea or have not checked off on every period.

"I can't say much if you haven't heard of: Battletech, Legend of the Five Rings, Starcraft."

Sorry, never heard of them and no one plays them. There are at least 25 or more gamers that I normally play games with. Of course most are 35+ years old (most older) so maybe we don't like games/miniatures like that. They don't show up on the radar. We play a lot of historical games.

Check Your 6 is listed also as CY6 and Splintered Light are really amazing 15mm figures.

"I can't say much if you haven't heard of: Battletech, Legend of the Five Rings, Starcraft."

Sorry, never heard of them and no one plays them. There are at least 25 or more gamers that I normally play games with. Of course most are 35+ years old (most older) so maybe we don't like games/miniatures like that. They don't show up on the radar. We play a lot of historical games.

That last is more important than age for that list of games. Historical gamers who have been historical gamers for a long time tend not to look at the rest of the hobby. History is a big hobby all by itself, really.

A 30-something (or older) who had come from a more general gaming background in his teens will almost certainly have heard of Battletech. Five Rings *maybe*. Starcraft as anything other than the computer game or recent FFG boardgame is rather obscure, though

Someone is missing the point here.

Giving a product to every theoretically impartial juror in order to be allowed to compete for the contest would be considered bribery under most US laws. It's not a minor payment to 'grease the skids' (which would be legal). It's an organized racket to get the Jurors thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in free stuff. There's no obligation for the jurors to actually play the games they're given, just a matter of saying 'yup, I got a copy of game X, so they go on the list' or 'nope, didn't get a copy of game Y, so they don't even get to be voted on'

That said, I'm surprised that you haven't heard of Battletech, avid. It's only been around since the mid 1980s!

Let's see here… GAMA awards for 2008:
Miniatures rules of the year went to *Battletech*? What? Those rules haven't changed in 25 years, and they're clunky!

The L5R card game was something that I looked at when I was in college the first time, 12 years ago. How's that new, improved, or otherwise cool?

Starcraft board game? I guess that came out last year. I think the copy on the shelf at the FLGS has been sitting there for 6 months, though.

Age of Empires 3 is pretty fun, but I've only played it twice, at the FLGS.

Haven't seen Splintered Light's minis, can't comment.

Hall of Fame inductees:
Bob Salvatore? you've got to be kidding me. His writing is horrible. The only good thing I can say is that every time the D&D writers get together, Drizzt *dies* hideously, since RAS insists on having him try things that a D&D character can't do, but Drizzt does all the time in the stories.

Vampire: the Masquerade? Ok, I can see that, since Vampire is one of the games that really kicked the idea of character over physical combat into view, and should be at least considered for that reason. Whether you like the World of Darkness or not, or if you even like Vampires at all, the concept of character first is the key to all of the games White Wolf puts out, and was pretty revolutionary at the time V:TM released.

Paranoia? It's ok, not really my style of game, though. I know a lot of people that really enjoy the wacky humor of the game, so I can't hate it, but it's just not something I enjoy. It should have a place, since the game is one of the few intentionally comical RPGs out there.

Come on people, almost all industry self promotional award systems require sample submission to get on the list. Can anyone name a convention style award system that does not require samples?

Last time I checked HMGS-E required 2-5 sample submissions listed right on the form (I do not know if they are returned or not).

I would think this to be typical of a major event, and totally dependent on the number and geographic location of the jurors. For example a smaller venue may be able to have judges physically meet, I do not know what the academy judges do or how they select stuff, I would bet that any new game company that submits a qualified product (i.e. new and they submit the requested samples) get's on the list. The only thing I can think of for the jurors to do is classify the stuff for voting and possibly rule out stuff that is not appropriate or does not meet some qualification (i.e. a re-release of previously published stuff).

Typically I would think samples are not returned because it requires effort and money to do so. The judges are volunteers, they do not get paid, and yes I am sure that keeping the swag is the only way GAMA can get them to do it. Perfect system? Not really, corrupt? Possibly – so are a lot of others I am sure.

Do the awards provide huge marketing and or bragging rights? I guess it is up to the manufacturer to decide if it is worth it.

Avidgamer,
Seriously? Check your 6 is like the hottest WWII aircraft game out right now. So that one I would have to say probably deserved the victory. You should check it out.

Since you have Space Marines, I am surprised that you have not heard of Battletech? You would practically trip over the Battletech stuff on the way to the GW isle in the local game store.

Although I agree it has not changed much since the 1980s, and I might have thought it would not qualify it for that reason?

Check out the "Battletech room" at Historicon if they still have it this year, you might like it.

Avidgamer, I am in my 50s and have been selling in the hobby since 1983. battletech was one of the main selling products in my store in the 1980s. I have played 100s of games and painted 1000s of mechs.

Though 95% of my stock is historicals now back when I went to shows in the 1980s a high percentage of my overall sales were battleTech. I do not do much with it now, since I do not carry clix and prefer the original timeline.

I do agree that a lot of the items on the GAMA list, I have not played nor into to play. After I was nominated for Induanas! Colonels and Emirs back in 1983-84, I was invited to join the Academy of Designers who made the final vote back then. They have changed the format several times over the past three decades. I always compared getting a nomination as a gamers 'People's Choice Awards' with a lot of voters and winning as the Academy Awards where only a few people voted.

Induanas! Colonels and Emirs is still an excellent game.

Battletech was cleaned up a little and is doing very well in its newest guise.

Legend of the Five Rings new edition.

Starcraft is the FFG board games.

I would venture that most people on this side of the pond couldn't care less about the origins awards(unless your company actually wins one) because;
1) There is a heavy US bias
2) The UK wargames market is bigger than that in the States anyway

"Seriously? Check your 6 is like the hottest WWII aircraft game out right now. So that one I would have to say probably deserved the victory. You should check it out."

The guys play Wings of War. That's it for flying games. Everyone (except me) has 57 gozillion planes so I've never had to buy any. Wings of War is really a fun game. It's quick, easy and great for 10 guys to play all at once.

"Since you have Space Marines, I am surprised that you have not heard of Battletech? You would practically trip over the Battletech stuff on the way to the GW isle in the local game store."

Errr… nope. I thought this was a old Playstation game using models but I Goggled it. I was thinking this was Mechwarrior so nope, doesn't ring a bell. _No one_ plays it. The miniatures actually seem lame. Glad I don't play it.

"Check out the "Battletech room" at Historicon if they still have it this year, you might like it."

Hahahahaha… no I'll pass. Thanks. :)

One of the problems I had with the process was sending the games to the folks who were, I thought, the judges. Instead the gamers at Origins voted. That narrows the awards focus to the predominant gaming types at the convention. I must admit that I would not have sent the copies if I had known that was the voting procedure in advance.

Their award, their procedure, but I learned a lesson.

gregoryk

I think 'Dated' would be a better description of most of the Battletech minis. They've only been using the same sculpts for the last 25 years or so (barring the new designs that may not have been sculpted yet for the Tech Readout 3075 stuff).

When your hired artists haven't figured out how to draw curves in perspective yet in the early books, that kind of sets the tone for the following designs (blocky and stiff). Doesn't help that FASA got burned back in the day over the Macross designs (the Land-Air Mechs that were the equivalent of the Valkyries).

It really depends on why they need 8. How are the games judged? If there are 7 Jurors I would say that you need at least 7- 1 per person, and they all need an opportunity to play a couple of games per game, then one against each other- see if they interpret the rules differently.

I don't have much respect for GAMA, Nothing said here changes my mind.

Sorry to see Battletech "cleaned up" that's a big negative for me.

Judging should, in any event, IMO be done by Judges playing a game hosted by the designer. I see this as enforced payola as well.