"German Pacific Squadron @ Manila" Topic

Reading the book "The Spanish War" & it mentions the arrival of the German Pacific squadron soon after the battle of Manila. Does anyone know what ships comprised this squadron? Also, are there any 1/3000 models of the ships comprising it (or good proxies)?

Hypothetically, were they significant enought to have altered the course of the battle had they augmented the Spanish fleet? Thanks!

The only one I remember was the Kaiserin Augusta. Yes, in fact they were so obnoxious after the battle that Dewey almost took them on.

I believe the squadron comprised the following:

Deutshland
Kaiser
Kaiserin Augusta
Irene
Prinzess Wilhelm
Gefion
Cormoran

Check War Times Journal and Navwar. Between the two you can probably fill out the squadron. I made this list to game the Spanish American War but never got around to completing the research. There was a web page about these ships but I cannot find it now.

Al

According to 'Politcs of Frustration: The United States in German Naval Planning 1889-1941' von Dietrich's force off Manila during mid June was made up of:

Kaiserin Augusta
Kaiser
Irene
Prinzess Wilhelm
Gefion
Cormoran

Deutschland was still in Tsingtau (and was so old and slow as to be of limited value).

And given the general lackluster quality of the Spanish ships and the fact that Dewey's move caught Kaiser Bill flat footed (not at all a hard thing to do), it's doubtful that the German force could've gotten there in time to make a difference.

My group actually played this scenario (Germany vs US) out and it wasn't a happy ending for the Germans.

Could I ask what rules you like for this period and why?

WWI and the pre-dreadnought phase are my favourite periods of naval warfare but I've not yet ventured down the path of collecting models and playing a set of rules.

Nick

Indeed, the Germans arrived several weeks after Manila Bay. Part of the reason though was von Diedrichs' passivity in the weeks prior. He was under orders to prevent "by any practical means" the Americans from taking the Philippines.

Von Diedrichs had the means and the coal to get there well before Dewey, but his strategy was instead to attempt to pin Dewey on the China coast by buying up all the coal there so Dewey would have none, and thus be unable to get to the Philippines himself.

Once von Diedrichs figured out the British sold Dewey a couple full colliers, it was too late – Dewey was already gone, and even then von Diedrichs dallied a bit before sending a single cruiser ahead to investigate.

Von Diedrichs vs Dewey is a compelling scenario – have toyed with the idea of building Von Diedrichs' ships myself.

His squadron lacks the big gun (8") punch that Dewey has, but he's got a whole lot of 5.9" and 105mm quickfires that hit harder than the American 5-inchers. The balance tipper though is Kaiser. While she is an old refurbished ironclad, she is more heavily armored and armed than anything else on either side. Gefion was a late arrival if I am not mistaken, showing up after von Deidrichs backed down.

For more fun, the British Immortalite can be thrown into the mix too.

Thank you gentleman, I appreciate it. I have the Spanish and American squadrons in 1/3000 from War Times Journal, I purchased them a while back. At the same time, Litko made me custom bases to use with "Fire when Ready
by David Manley. I figured I should try and tack projects like these in my closet before moving on to buying more lead…

nsolomon99, Fire when Ready has been mentioned. A free set I like is Damn Battleships Again. This is a relatively simple set by Phil Barker. For even quicker simpler games try De Bellis Navilibus another free ruleset spun off from DBA. Ben King has a set of rules which others have commented favorably on. One retailer is Scale Creep Miniatures
link
Scale Creep also has some rules reviews link
Wargames Vault has a lot of naval rules also
wargamevault.com/index.php
You should also look through the posts in the other messages on this board. Lots of discussions of various rules systems including the Ben King rules.

Here's a direct link to the naval games page on wargame vault. Plenty of good options there.

link

Naval Thunder is a big seller that covers WWI and the RJW, but not the Spanish-American war. A WWII version is due out in a couple months.

Thanks guys, I'll follow up as suggested.

Just to follow on, does anyone have a naval TOE for the US and Germany off Venezuela in 1902?

Dan

this opst has settled me on the pre-dread period to build..
US-Germany antagonism seems a lovely what if. esp in the light of spanAm stuff.

ive been doing some digging around and "Danger of dreams" concentrates on that the authour, nancy mitchell also wrote a paper on the venezualan blockade, whihc is mentioned in that books front matter you might get an OB out of that

bah.

Iḿ looking to fill out the 1898 Diedrichs IGN EA Sqn in 1/3000 and WTJ have the Gefion and the Kaiserin Augusta.

The Kaiser (Sqn flag) and Deutscheland listed as part of the Ostasiengeschwader i'm guessing is the Eponymous Kaiser class 8799t laid down 1872 refitted 1895 and 97.
These are most likely NAVWAR N3116A listed as 1897, 2 in class? can anyone confirm this?

doesnt look like anyone does the Irene II class II protected cruisers Irene and Prinzess Wilhelm

the Barq. rigged Bussard class IV Lt Cruiser, Cormoran also doesnt appear to be modelled.

any ideas?

@shagnasty wasnt dewey the obnoxious one??? ;-)

By the way, "Naval Thunder: Rise of the Battleship II" which will cover most of the major navies of the world for the late 1880s to mid 1900s is supposed to be released before the end of the year . . . (yes, we've heard this before, but I think that there is a good chance . . . particularly if we keep asking after it).

-- Jeff