"Italian Sailors in the Boxer Rebellion" Topic

I have encountered another problem in working on my Boxer Rebellion Europeans – the cap worn by the Italian sailors. From the few pictures I've been able to find it looks very much like that worn by the French, only without the pom pom. Can someone confirm this for me or advise that which is correct? Also does anyone know of a good pictorial source for Italian sailors of the period?

Thanks,

Terry

I don't know if the 1911 uniform was the same as 1900 but if you search on the italian ebay for words like tripoli/ marinai/sbarco/1911 you can find postcards or illustrated newspapers of sailors during the libian war. Like this tinyurl.com/cdsmwc

Most of the sailors look the same sans the French pom pom, IIRC.

Thanks,

John

Thanks John And Magister. Looks like a French sailor with the pom pom removed will do the trick. Thanks guys!

Terry

But a French sailor is an English sailor avec un pompom, isn't it? So why don't you use an English sailor???

Renaud is right! There was so little difference that you could start with the RN just as easily, and have no pompom to remove!

The style followed the universal form for all navies at the time, being either dark blue or white. The universal badge of the Italian armed forces was a five-pointed star, worn on the collar. It was white or silver, except for ‘general officers' who had gold stars. Ratings had the star in the corners of their blue collars, which had 2 white stripes around the edges. The peakless cap had a band which was tied in a small bow on the left side. The trousers were either worn loose or tucked into white or dark (brown or black)gaiters.

Branch badges, and the chevrons denoting rank, were worn on both upper arms, in red embroidery. Petty officers wore one to three gold chevrons, point down, on the upper arms.

Warrant officers wore officers' caps without the rank lace. Their jackets had dark blue shoulder brides [patches at right angles to the seam] with one to three gold lace stripes. On the frock coat they wore a single medium-width cuff stripe with the branch badge above.

The officers' hat was like the British; flag officers had broad gold embroidery around the edges, with black ostrich feather plumage. The full-dress garment was a coatee with two rows of five buttons, four of which buttoned, with rank stripes on the sleeves; and the silver regular service star at the ends of the collar, in gold for flag officers. Flag officers wore gold twisted cords on the shoulders, with hanging cords on the right shoulder; the other officers had brides: of plain gold lace for junior officers; of dark blue cloth for senior officers, with a gold edging, and a gold anchor cable in the middle; and gold shoulder scales with a plain or vand edging and thin or thick bullions respectively. The dress trousers had gold stripes.

The service coat had the star at the ends of the collar, and rank stripes on the cuffs; it was double-breasted, with two rows of five buttons, and brides, like the double-breasted jacket, which had only three buttons in each row. With this an officers' peaked cap was worn, which had a gold crowned anchor in a laurel wreath above the peak, and the fairly wide band had the same stripes as on the cuffs, around it.

Naval officers wore the light-blue shoulder sash as in the army.

Weapons & Equipment
The sailors used either the M1882 Vetterli-Bertoldo or the M1890 Vetterli-Ferracciu. Adopted by the Italian navy, the Bertoldo was basically a M1870 Vetterli with a tube magazine, the magazine loaded through the top of the open action. The cleaning rod was fitted in a channel cut into the left side of the fore-end. In 1890 a few surviving Vetterli-Bertoldos were converted to Vetterli-Ferracciu, using the 4-round Ferracciu box magazine system. The old rifle's stock was retained, keeping the heavy look, but balance was much improved.

I think that the italian naval cap is much more flat than the english caps.
Old Glory has some spanish sailors in their mexican wars range.
I think their cap is much more similar to the Italian one.
If I were you I could use the english/french sailors [without the pompom of course] but for more accuracy I would convert some using the heads with the spanish hat

I have seen engravings of Boxer rebellion lately, and it seems that in this hot summer of 1900, sailors from all nationalities also wore occasionnaly the straw hat, and some of them the colonial helmet of the marines too.

Please don't take this wrongly, Argsilverson, but can I ask is the idea that the Italian sailor's cap was 'flatter' than the RN's based on a source, please? I ask because I am looking at a couple of photos of large groups of Italian sailors in China (from Madero, Adriano. [Trans Elizabeth Tomlin]. The Boxer Rebellion. Treviso, Italy: Europrint, 2001) and they look just like a group of RN sailors of the time. There are 2 main 'styles', concave top (up at front and back) and convex top (down at the sides), entirely dependent on personal preference. If there was a regulation difference I'd really appreciate the source please.

Renaud S – Straw hats – there are photos of nations other than GB in 'sennet' hats, but I've not discovered one of any Italians. Would be delighted to know if anyone has, please? Certainly the Germans and Japanese wore them (from memory) ie appear in photos in China in them. I will look at the rest to see who elso wore them.

Virtually all naval infantry from this period was almost identical, except the French. Oh well, as they say, "The French copy no one, and no one copies the French."

I got two sets of the FOW Soviet Naval infantry -because this was all I could find- and painted one up in a blue uniform, and one in white. I then did flags for the Italians, British, Prussians, Russians, American Confederates, American Federals, and even the French (maybe their pom poms got cut off…) and they all look great.

Of course, I used the Soviet Naval Infantry with rifles, not the ones with smgs.

How many riflemen come in each set ODWBB? I am interested because they sell FOW miniatures in a store not far from me.

I have now had a chance to look at Italian sailors hats in the naval museum in Venice. They are displayed alongside those of other nations. Apart from details like the language of the lettering on the tally band and the presence of hanging ends, I can confirm that there is absolutely no difference in the shape between navies.