"1866 Han(n)overian (and minor states) Colours" Topic

Gentlefolk

Any idea where I can get illustrations or descriptions of Regimental Colours for these chaps?

ta
Ben

German states

link

no Hannover though

Ben,

Here is a link to Warflag's 19th Century European flags: link . Unfortunately there are no Hanoverian flags.

Try Google "Hanoverian flags." There are a couple of sites that have some state level flags.

Jim

Thanks folks,

The only illustration I can find is at link

I just wanted to see if there were any clearer examples, plus cavalry standards for Langansalza.

Again thanks for the input

Best
Ben

Have a look here, mainly uniforms but you may get lucky

link

hussarbob1746.webs.com

Ben,

Depends on how serious you are, as its not an easy or accessible topic. Firstly, I am afraid this is where the otherwise excellent WARFLAG site fails you. Its German state flags for mid 19th century are largely conjectural. Bavaria is reasonably accurate. Prussian flags are not, particular with regard to the shape of the Gothic cross. Hesse, Wurttemburg, Baden and Saxony are all completely wrong. For Hanover, the story is not straightforward, as the infantry carried a variety of flags of 3 basic patterns: Guard; old line or 'provincial' patterns; new line/jager of a more Prussian style. The best (only!?) source I have managed to come across was supplied to me in photocopy form by a kind person at the Bomann Museum in Celle, in response to an e-mail enquiry I sent some years back. For a few Euros I got an article in German, with a number of black and white line drawings and descriptions of flags. The article is 25 pages, is entitled "Welche fahnen waren bei Langensalza?" by Dr Ottfried Neubecker and was published in the "Hannoversche Geschichtsblatter" of Hannover , 1936/37. It covers exactly what you are looking for, and the illustrations cover all the infantry flags you want, together with the cavalry flags (which are old patterns, some dating from the SYW era). They might be able to provide you with the same assistance that they provided to me. For other German states the best source I have found is a book, also in German, by Major Ewald Fiebig, published in Germany in the '30s, called "Unsterbliche Treue". It appears second hand on occasion on the web, but can be quite expensive.

What scale are you looking for? Baccus produce sheets for Hesse, Baden, Mecklenburg, Saxony, Wurttemburg, Bavaria, all in 6mm, which I had a hand in researching, and which fit my own 10mm figures very well. I think Pendraken may have some ( Bavaria, Hesse and Wurttemburg) but I am not sure they were ever finally produced. Their original offerings were based on the WARFLAG designs, and therefore perpetuated their problems.

Hope this is helpful

Mollinary/Andrew

PS The two flags shown in your illustration are the new flag (with yellow cross) and a somewhat inaccurate version of the guard flag.

Uniformology has just published its Book No. 33 The Austro-Prussian War 1866 – Vol 1 Hanover" Available at On Military Matters from about Wednesday. There is information on Hanoverian Flags in that.

The Uniformology book on Hanover 1866 is written by Mike Embree Incidentally.

To whom, perhaps not entirely coincidentally, I sent a copy of the article referred to above about a year ago!

Mollinary/Andrew

There you go!!

Wonderful

Andrew – 10mm (though as accurate as I can being a little over zealous in these things…), I just got my CD of back issues of the Continental Wars Society "Foreign Correspondent" and I find a very in depth article on the Hannovarian (and others) Colours in issue 15 "Flags of Langensalza"

A lot more complicated than I thought – which I like…
Just awaiting my first order of troops from Pendraken.

Again thanks all.

Best
Ben

Ben,

Sounds great. I am also a member of the CWS, but was not aware of the article you refer to. It sounds as if it may use the German article as a source. I'll have to see if I can get a copy of the CD. Pendraken is a good choice, their latest figures are beautiful, and the range is expanding regularly. I admit I join you on the "over zealous" thing, I love the research involved in getting things right for this period, and have long had the anorak hanging off the back of my chair! If you are doing the other small states besides Hanover I do recommend you take a look at the Baccus flags – they fit the Pendraken flagpoles well, and are pretty accurate for size on 10mm figures. It is only the pretty well universal tendency to produce oversize flags these days that makes us think of them as small.

Cheers

Andrew

Thanks Andrew

I will get some Baccus flags tout suite, to go slightly OT what rules do you use for 1866?

Best
Ben

Ben,

Have tried a few (Volley and Bayonet, a Fire and Fury variant called Furia Francese, a set called Bismarck and Napoleon0, and am eagerly awaitng Bruce Weigle's long promised 1866, as a companion volume to his 1870 and 1859 Rule Sets. However, the set I currently use is a little known set produced under the name Real Time Wargames, and marketed by Keith Warren of Realistic Modelling.It is called Wars of Empire 1: The Seven Weeks War, and cost about 6.50 sterling. The rules are simple, and use a movement system something like Peter Pig's square bashing system, but they allow big battles to be played in short amounts of time. They are fun, and force you to address thorny issues like troop density and when to deploy into "tactical" formations in a very realistic fashion. They also repay attention to reserves, and the ability to refresh front lines, rather than leaving units to battle on for ever. Well worth a look at Keith's website, look under the "Painted Miniatures" link.

Cheers

Andrew

Thanks Andrew

Greetings:
I uploaded the Stuart Sutherland article "Flags of Langensalza" from "The Foreign Correspondent" #15 here:

link

Mallen

Mitchell,

Thanks for that, very thoughtful. Sadly, as it is members only, I'll not be able to have a look and cross check it with my sources until my membership is approved. So far 24 hours and counting.

Andrew

Andrew:

send me an e-mail to mitch.allen@bostonhousing.org and I'll send you the file.

M

M,

Brilliant, thanks, consider it done!

Andrew

Andrew,

Speaking of articles, did I send you the other one I found from an earlier Hannoversche Geschichtsblätter, Die Hannoverschen Fahnen im Vaterländischen Museum der Stadt Hannover?

Mike

Mike,

No you didn't, but I'd be fascinated to see it – I assume most of them disappeared in the second world war.

Andrew

Apologies, Andrew!

I thought I had! I'll get it copied and sent to you. Oh, and yes – up in smoke!

Mike