"Best Sci-Fi Fleet Battle Books?" Topic

What's your pick and why? They need to be books that focus on ship combat, ship life, etc, culminating in fleet actions. They could be from a major genre (ie Star Wars Rogue Squadron) or one unique or less known.

Bonus points for outstanding writing and inspiring ship combat for gaming!

I like the Lost Fleet novels. A fairly unique description of spaceship combat. Takes into account the vast distances and the speed of light in the manuevers leading up to the combats.

I also like Passage at Arms and The Dragon never Sleeps by Glen Cook. Passage at Arms is essentially Das Boot in space.

Steve Weber and David White and the Starfire-inspired series "Insurrection", "Crusade", "In Death Ground" and "The Shiva Option".

elizabeth moon's command decision.

I like the Glenn Cook novels already mentioned (overall, The Dragon Never Sleeps is the better novel, although there is more space combat in PaA).

Weber was OK, but tanked quickly after the first few novels. He became quite unreadable to me.

I enjoy the Lost Fleet Novels. Good on tactical situations, but not real strong on characters and overall plot (outside of the battles).

I STRONGLY recommend Walter Jon Williams's Dread Empire's Fall Series: The Praxis, The Sundering, and Conventions of War. (The series is comeplete with these three novels).

Mweaver, Weber on his own – I agree. But with White, more than readable.

Legend of the Galactic Heroes by Yoshiki Tanaka. What, you can't read Japanese?

Weber is ok.

Legend of Galactic Heroes is good but beyond a fan-translation unavailable.

The Lost Fleet series, as others have said. Great stuff.

Elizabeth Moon's Vatta War series is very enjoyable. (Begins with Trading in Danger) I also recommend her Heris Serrano omnibus edition; not much space warfare per se until the last section (Winning Colors), but the battle in it is well done, and military ship life is a theme throughout (or rather, how a cashiered Naval officer adapts to life as a captain of a private yacht-turned-quasi-mercenary). There's a strong "Traveller" flavor to this series, which shouldn't be surprising, since her original fantasy trilogy is clearly based on D&D.

R. M. Meluch's The Tour of the Merrimack series is terrific; US Navy, Marines, tentacled alien monsters and treacherous Romans— yes, Romans— what more could you ask for? (The Myriad is the first book.)

Timothy Zahn's Conquerors trilogy is also excellent. I think he's one of the stars of space opera today. Great story telling, solid plots and always an interesting hook or two. Less fleet life/ship life heavy, but a top notch series.

I also enjoy Walter Hunt's The Dark Wing series.

And then there's the late, great H. Beam Piper's Space Viking.

I almost forgot— schlockmercenary.com

Some excellent space combat scenes in the three series by Ian Douglas (aka William Keith) -- Heritage Trilogy, Inheritance Trilogy and the Legacy Trilogy, following humanity's war against itself, and the "Hunters of the Dawn":

link

Face of the Enemy and it's sequel.

Honor Harrington series

Mutineer's Moon series

The White Wing

Vatta's War

In Death Ground & Shiva Option

The Last Legion series

Path of the Fury

can't remember the name, but they used ships called Climbers

several other good ones that are lost to memory 25 years ago.

Ender's Game is far and away my favourite.

My recommendations have already been named by others:

Glen Cook's The Dragon Never Sleeps and Passage At Arms.

H. Beam Piper's Space Viking.

Walter Jon Williams' Dread Empire's Fall trilogy.

Hi

I second the lost fleet series (next one out this month)

Al

I liked most of the David Weber RMN/Havenite universe books and disagree regarding the Weber/White collaborations--most of the writing in those just seemed to me to be not so good--I read them anyway, being a dedicated Starfire player in the '80s.

A third (or fourth) vote for the Lost Fleet series by Campbell. There was another Lost Fleet series (from Baen books) which was an anthology of short stories--quality of the stories varied.

I read one of Meluch's Merrimac books and didn't like it at all, in spite of the Roman presence.

David Drake's Leary books are interesting, though most of the action is intelligence type operations.

Chris Bunch had some books (can't remember the series name now) that were okay--combat seemed to be based upon early WW2 air combat.

Elizabeth Moon's books are good.

I know I've read other stuff (inlcuding some of the rogue Squadron books), just can't remember any details right now.

Rob

I'd add another vote for Lost Fleet. Definitely my favorites. As others have said, as "novels" go they are not outstanding.

However, as stories of space combat go, they are head and shoulders above anything else I have read.

One of the things I love about them is he is modeling WWI combat, instead of WWII or Age of Sail as you usually see.

I'll go thirdsies on the "Dread Empire's Fall".

SMc.

Passage at Arms has the climbers.

H. Beam Piper's Space Viking

Just toss a couple of Hellburners at them…

Katzbalger, the Chris Bunch series you mentioned is probably Last Legion. I have 4 of them and they are decent books.

I'll add a plug for my own "War Among the Ruins". A few good space battles in that one. Available through Amazon.com

link

Poul Anderson had some good space battles in some of his scifi stories. Also Nivens and Pournelle in their Mote series of books.

David Brin's Startide Rising.

Robert

"I'll add a plug for my own "War Among the Ruins". A few good space battles in that one. Available through Amazon.com"

When Scott's not performing his most important task, making 15mm paper buildings for Flames of War and other eras, he also writes novels!?

"I liked most of the David Weber RMN/Havenite universe books and disagree regarding the Weber/White collaborations--most of the writing in those just seemed to me to be not so good--I read them anyway, being a dedicated Starfire player in the '80s."

I'm a bit confused about which Weber is which, there seems to be a David Weber who wrote novels and STarfire Rules (space combat game) and a Steven Weber who wrote novels?
Or are people just mixing up the first names?

"Poul Anderson had some good space battles in some of his scifi stories. Also Nivens and Pournelle in their Mote series of books."
Doug, any chance of being more specific on the books? Anderson is PROLIFIC!

"The Big Wheel" by somebody-whose-name-I-can't-remember. Near future space battles with shuttles. Otherwise an average read.

Peter F. Hamilton – Night's Dawn trilogy and also Pandora's Star. Awesome hard SF space opera. Fallen Dragon, too. Good shipboard life, all fairly plausible. And he has radiators on his spaceships! Three cheers!!!

Niven & Pournelle, of course. Especially Footfall (eat hot gamma rays, alien scum!!!) and The Gripping Hand (rape my lizard!). Any book with quotable quotes is a good one. IMHO.

One of Arthur C. Clarke's short stories about a guy on Deimos hiding from a battlecruiser. Not a space battle but well thought out.

Warbirds, by a woman-whose-name-I-forget. Good fighter combat but short on the hard SF.

Catch The Lightning, Catherine Asaro. Mostly fighter based but tech is very cool. If you can get past the Mills & Boone romance it's fantastic. Good descriptions of fighter cockpit and environment.

Warstrider novels by I-watched-Robotech-when-I-was-young William H. Keith. The only mecha-in-space novel but good fleet action too.

Getting a little off-topic here, but I want to add plug for books by two authors who have already been mentioned.

"Jack Campbell" of the Lost Fleet series has also written under his own name--John Hemry. The series starting with "A Just Determination" gives a great view of the life of a junior officer in a space navy. Hemry was a naval officer, so he has lots of good details. He also introduces a lot of elements of what would be different, like the habits that space navy folks would develop. The entire series is on sale as e-books from Baen, bundled with his Stark's War series for only $30. USD

First four chapters of "A Just Determination": link

Hemry mega-bundle: link

Elizabeth Moon continued the Herris Serrano series with the Esme Suiza series, in the same setting. These are well worth reading because they carry along the stories of many of the charaters from the earlier books. It start with "Once a Hero." The books are being collected in "The Serrano Connection" and "The Serrano Succession." The books are all listed on Moon's page at Baen: link E-books are available for most.

One of the best scenes in the series is a very creepy walk on the outside of a ship in hyperspace …

Erbprinz wrote:

"When Scott's not performing his most important task, making 15mm paper buildings for Flames of War and other eras, he also writes novels!?"

Yeah, it's true :) I did most of my writing 6 or 7 years ago, before I started PaperTerrain. I love writing, but trying to get it published is an incredible ordeal. Even with an agent (which I have) it can take *years* to get a yes-or-no from a publisher (DAW has currently had one of my manuscripts for over two years now). With this frustration my writing dropped off and I ended up starting PaperTerrain. It was a good move: I was still doing creative work, but I was actually making money from it! What a concept! In just three years I made more than I would have if I'd sold a half-dozen novels. But I still write when I have time. I'm getting close to completing another novel right now.

Most of the recommendations I would make already have been

I'd add Renegade Legion for one though

yeah scott, most people don't realize how cluttered the written novel scene is, and how hard it is to make a buck.

There've been a ton of recommendations, and lots of useful voting – I've made a stat sheet and the proper requests thru the library. Now I just have to see who they actually get in!

I'd like to recommend Bill Baldwin's Helmsman Saga. Wing Commander: Fleet Action by William R. Forstchen. I'm not much on ship combat, ship life and starship fleet actions ( more of a Hammers type o guy) but these two have caught my interest, especially the Wing Commander novels.

"Renegade Legion"

I'm not sure, but I think only one has space battles, the other others being mostly about the Centurion (grav tank) game, but I haven't read them all. Even that one had the protagonist spending much of the novel trying to break out of a TOG on-world penal colony…

"I'm a bit confused about which Weber is which, there seems to be a David Weber who wrote novels and STarfire Rules (space combat game) and a Steven Weber who wrote novels?
Or are people just mixing up the first names?"

Sorry if I've missed someone already answering this, but David Weber did the 2nd(?) Ed Starfire rules, has written many novels, but the Starfire ones, except the last, was partnered with Steven *White*.

David Weber expands his charaters more when writing on his own, but I find that a weakness in his case. YMMV.

Some of my best friends LOVE Honor Harrinton… *shrug*

I'm aware of a Steven Weber the actor, but not a sci-fi (hope you don't find that an offensive term, because I don't) author.

The early Honor Harrington novels are really good. They are what got me writing. First Honorverse fan fiction and then my own original stories. Sadly, Mr. Weber became so enthralled with the massive universe he'd created that it became more important than the characters who lived in it. The recent stories have been 37 chapters of conference room scenes where the two sides alternately discuss what their enemies have done and what they are going to do to counter it, with a really brief mega-battle at the end. <yawn>

While I thoroughly enjoyed Weber's Harrington first books, I apparently quit reading them just in time. At some level, when the Peeps collapsed, perhaps it was time to start a new universe?

Jim

C.J Cherryh's "Downbelow Station". I loved the Company (Earth) fleet fighting battle after battle, never able to replace their losses, but doing their (perceived) duty without support. I also have the boardgame, but have never played it.

There were two really inspiring novels in the 40k universe that had excellent fleet actions. "Execution Hour" and to a lesser extent "Shadow Point", both by Gordon Rennie. Sorry, I hate the GW rules and prices, but really love the miniatures and the fluff. Where else can a captain lead his ship from his 'command pulpit?'

Steve Gibson

The Dorsai books by Gordon R. Dickson get my vote.

I think some of these books would fall into the space marine category instead of the space fleet.

Still all good books.

"Where else can a captain lead his ship from his 'command pulpit?'"

The far future of 2000 AD's Strontium Dog universe. Durham Red, I believe the series is called. Rubbish, though.

For realism, I think that Haldeman's "The Forever War" does a good job. However, it wouldn't be that much fun to play on a tabletop.

For exciting space battles… the previously mentioned Battlefleet Gothic novels from GW, Drake et al's "The Fleet", and Pournelle's "Imperial Stars" are all good series (I think there may be some "naval" action in the first of the "War World" books as well). I also like Drake's Royal Cinnibar Navy/Leary stories, although they are really age of sail in space (very Hornblower-esque).

Actually, Drake's Royal Cinnibar Navy/Leary stories are very Patrick O'Brian-y :) Leary and his sidekick (can't remember her name) are exact copies of O'Brian's Aubrey-Maturin characters in his long series of novels (Drake freely admits this).

Drake's Leary/Mundy books are the reason I started reading Aubrey/Maturin. They generally have only one or two big set piece space battles (fairly realistic from I gather, the age-of-sale-in-space stuff is their FTL travel, which requires "sails"), but the intrigue, ground-action and characterization are all top-notch as well.

Leary and Mundy have differences from O'Brian's characters as well. Mundy is more ruthless than Maturin by far. The characters are also connected by their pasts, which is not the case in O'Brian. Their servants, Hogg and Tovera, are also great characters and unlike anything in O'Brian.

What the heck!! Are you guys all kids? What about E.E. "Doc" Smith's 'Lensmen' series from back in the 50's??? Holy cow, he had fleets, "planetary" negaspheres, movable planets for big collisions, and the solar powered giant magnifying glass weapon. Not to mention space marines and the ultra-cool lensmen with physic (damn, can't spell) powers (ya know, mind reading and control), the ultimate space opera of ultimate good versus ultimate evil.

Re: e.e. "Doc" Smith – IIRC, Doc didn't do much detail of the space battles, just talking about the fleet as a whole, lined up like a funnel, etc.
I may be mistaken, it has been a while since I read him (not my favorite author).

Re: O'Brian/Aubrey – I consider him Hornblower-esque as well. Not so much in the development of the character, but in terms of the Age-of-Sail naval adventuring. I think Hornblower is the better known character, so used that as my reference point.

True, E.E. Smith's Lensman series tops them all as far as space battles go. In the last few books of the series you have fleets with millions of (big) ships in them. The early books deal with the mechanics of ship-to-ship action in more detail, but by the climax of the series it's whole galaxies at war.

And I can't agree that Mundy is more ruthless than Maturin--O'Brian just handles his ruthlessness much more subtly than Drake :)

You're probably right. It wouldn't be a David Drake book without a high body count and many introspective musings on the nature and effects of killing people on the mind.

I just finished "The Far Side of the World" and I've decided that I'm going to alternate Aubrey-Maturin books with Leary-Mundy books. So I start "With the Lightnings" again today.

I apologize,
Pournelle's "Imperial Stars" series was a bum steer as far as spaceship combat goes. This one's about governments. I seem to recall that he helmed a collection that WAS about starship combat, though I might be mistaken.
There are some good spaceship combat stories in the "There Will Be War" series, edited by Pournelle.

"Poul Anderson had some good space battles in some of his scifi stories. Also Nivens and Pournelle in their Mote series of books."

Doug, any chance of being more specific on the books? Anderson is PROLIFIC!

Fleet fights? In Anderson?

Mirkheim, part of the Polesotechnic League (van Rijn/Falkayn) cycle, has a fight or two, IIRC.

One of the early Flandry tales has him aboard a fleet ship during a fight, and he and the lady he is escorting end up in a turret on an otherwise dead ship, using manual controls to shoot at anything that comes close. Not really a "big picture" narrative, though.

Several other Flandry tales have descriptions of the rather unique requirements to catch and board another ship in FTL.

I rather liked David Feintuch's Nicholaus Seafort Saga.

Midshipman's Hope

Challenger's Hope

Prisoner's Hope

Fisherman's Hope,

Voices of Hope,

Patriach's Hope,

Children of Hope. (Galahad's Hope, an unpublished manuscript that Feintuch may have completed before his death)

"I'm a bit confused about which Weber is which, there seems to be a David Weber who wrote novels and STarfire Rules (space combat game) and a Steven Weber who wrote novels?
Or are people just mixing up the first names?"

Just for clarification, Steven Cole wrote Starfire the game, with David Weber, who writes the novels. There was some dustup between them about his not being a coauthor of the rules, though they used them for fighting the Starfire book battles. Weber did Starfire III himself.

I agree with everything said about David Weber though. I did skip some of his books and have recently gone back to catch up. The last Honor book just seemed to gloss over combat with "thousands" of missiles launched and shot down endlessly. His universe is getting too complicated even for him.

I would vote for some of the Honor Harrington series…Legion of Damned series….The Sten series…Battletech series…Heirs of empire series and anyone remember reading the Perry Phodan series?