"VaS: Age of Dreadnoughts - turning?" Topic

I'm a bit confused about the turning rules for AoD.

To quote from the rules, the ship's turning number "reflects how quickly a ship can turn."

Yet, unless I've missed one, ALL ships described in the fleet lists are the maximum 3 … pre-dreadnoughts to destroyers to civilian freighters. If that's correct, what's the point of having an attribute if they are the same for every single vessel?

Now, ships with a turning rating of 3 (which if you've been following along is all of them) can turn 90 degrees, according to the turn key.

The turning rules state…

"A ship may turn twice in each movement phase, once after it has completed half of its move, and again once movement has been completed."

So any ship in AoD can make a 180 turn in one movement phase? And since the minimum movement is one inch, a ship could therefore move half inch, make a right angle turn, move the remaining half inch and make another?

Mind you, in terms of the game scale, a ship's turning radius is therefore 500 yards. I know little about WWI naval, but I do know that – despite Sir George Tryon's maneuvering skills to the contrary – even pre-dreadnaughts could make such a turn. It just seems that all ships in AoD can therefore turn on a dime.

Another bit of turning confusion I have is the "agile" trait.

"An Agile", says the AoD tome, "ship may turn twice during its movement. The first turn must take place once the ship has moved half of its speed in a straight line. The second turn must take place at the end of the ship's movement once it has moved its FULL [my emphasis] Speed".

Huh?

Since the basic turning rules already allow a ship to make two turns AND do not require the ship to move its FULL speed, does not the "agile" attribute actually make the ship much clumsier?

>And since the minimum movement is one inch, a ship could therefore move half inch, make a right angle turn, move the remaining half inch and make another?

Is there not a minimum movement based on the speed of the ship at the start of the turn?

By this I mean, if a ship is moving at full speed in turn 1, the player does not have carte blanche to stop it dead in the water on turn 2? (momentum and all that)

If the ship really is moving at 1" perhaps it is reasonable to allow it a tight turn radius, as you yourself recognize.

w.

"Is there not a minimum movement based on the speed of the ship at the start of the turn?"

Nope – ships can move from a minimum of inch to its maximum speed, no matter the previous turn's speed.

"If the ship really is moving at 1" perhaps it is reasonable to allow it a tight turn radius, as you yourself recognize."

I do agree that it is probably reasonable, but then why bother with a "turn" attribute for ships, if all ships can turn that tightly?

i would of thought that a destroyer could have had a higher max number – perhaps a 4 ? – looks like those wacky editors at Mongoose are at it again.

Nope, not them. Any errors are mine alone (apart from the missing page references that are shown as "page XX")
The reason the rules are worded as they are is that originally the rules used the same model as the original VAS rules where ships turned very slowly. When I was given (almost) carte blanche to rewrite things this was something I changed, to allow ships to manoeuvre more in line with their demonstrated abilities. And one thing that comes out when you look at old trials reports is that in many cases the tactical diameter of a battleship and a destroyer were similar (IIRC the TD of the WW2 "Nelson" class was smaller than most RN and USN destroyers), since hydrodynamic form, directional stability and rudder efficiency all play an important part, as does sheer ship size.

"Agile" – hmm, yes, I seem to have made a bit of a bish on that. It was a late edit (not a good excuse I know, but used by even the best of rules authors occasionally). I recall changing the trait but obviously what went to MGP wasn't (in this case) the final version. I'll check back to see what it should be.

OK, I've found my text on what the "agile" trait should be. It should state that :

"Some ships are very manoeuvrable, either by virtue of speed
and size or advanced rudder designs. Ships with the "agile" trait have bonuses when attempting "come about" or "evasive" special actions."

Sorry about that, and as I said, its my bad, not MGP's

Thanks David, I am looking forward to picking up a copy of AoD myself.

w.

Thanks for the clarifications David. Had you decided on what type of bonus for agile ships? +1 to the command roll?

Interesting to learn that about the Nelson.

The rest of the rules look solid, and have some interesting – but simple to implement – bits. I like the way subs are handled, the option to send out cruisers to screen your fleet and the advanced formation rules. The latter especially will give a real WWI "feel" to the battles I think.

Thanks again,
Tony

As someone who has and enjoys the WWII variant, what differences can I expect in the WWI version – please note my level of naval gaming knowledge runs only just beyond 'big/small ship' and 'big/small guns' (ruleset wise Ive plavyed VaS and GQ and thats pretty much it)

I am thinking of getting these rules but they do not have Austrian ships in the book,

I hope they will put other ships online or produce a supplement

I've put an order in for them having won a British fleet in a raffle. Just another project to join the long line of uncompleted stuff… :)

Steve P