"Hexes and Squares for Miniature Gaming" Topic

I prefer hexes and squares for simpler, faster games. In general, games that utilize such measurements are more abstract and "digital" as previously mentioned. I use them for Knights Cross (WW2 Air) and Naval '44 (WW2 Naval) as the scale sizes are in the hundreds of feet or thousands of yards per hex, and being air or sea games, there is relatively little terrain.

However, for our skirmish game such as Into the Sunset (Wild West) and Into the Reich (WW2) ground scale is the same as or close to figure scale, in which case it makes much more sense to have free movement as objects such as walls, windows, doors, etc. which have an impact on the game can be utilized to the fullest. It is detail oriented, since players often have to mention actions such as ducking behind doors or windows, or only peeping their heads above a stone wall. With this level of detail we rarely have more than 60 individual figures, although a few games have run to over 100.

Range measuring is minimized by making weapon bands quite broad – short range is 50 cm and medium range is 100. Extreme range is 2 m, so basically if you can see it on the table, it is in weapon range, although movement and cover modifiers may make it difficult to impossible to hit a target. Along those lines, I use d10's for "to hit" dice so that the range bands can have a more gradual modifier rate -i.e. short range =-0, medium range = -1, long range =-2, etc. so that a target that is 51 cm from you is only -1 harder to hit. In addition, this is moderated out in that most weapons receive multiple dice, so your attack is not dependent on a single roll for resolution. Usually terrain or visual factors (partial cover behind a wall or smoke screen) have greater impact on the die modifers than the range factors.

--Binhan

I have settled into to 6" squares for my two games. I play 54mm AWI and used very modified Battle Cry and I alternate in Medievals. I use 90mm figures with either BattleLore or my own modified Day of Battle rules. For my medievals a unit is a single base which actually represents the footprint of 4 DBx stands as are now being used in those popular ancient rules from Italy. Finally for small games (table size wise) I have based up a portion of my 25mm Medievals on a single base the size of 4 DBx 15mm stands again as for the Italian rules and use a printed 4" square cloth I got from Hotx Matts.

Cheers

Chris P.

My favourite games are Crossfire, Peter Pig's Square Bashing and Wings of War. Their alternatives to constantly measuring ranges and angles (each one does it in a different way) are a major factor in why we play them.

We've made 1' square terrain tiles for Square Bashing and I'm thinking about using them for Crossfire too. In theory, using the tiles as well as the usual 'point to point' movement should allow me to create a table with some wide open spaces that would not normally be possible with Crossfire. I'm not sure I've explained that very well! Have any other Crossfire players tried this?

Yes, I think some people use 'reporting lines' in Crossfire games – same sort of idea as using a grid. it is discussed on the CF yahoogroup. Personally I just restrict moves in the open to 10" before allowing another reactive fire.

Yes, I think that's pretty much what I'm doing, Martin. I'm including terrain tile edges as points at which reactive fire can occur. It's encouraging to know it's been done before.

The standard issue with hexes is aesthetic and logistics. Having hexes on a playing area for miniatures normally detracts from the diorama experience. You can minimise this, but never eliminate it. The logistics are creating the hexes and when a game needs to be played, setting it up. If you use the GHQ system, where the playing area is 2x2', and you use GHQ hexes, not an issue. If you want a larger playing area, such as 3x4' or 4x6', then setting up the playing area can be a nightmare. I remember setting up a large playing area (for moderns) which took two people almost an hour to setup. We were using reasonably small hexes, the GHQ size, if you use much larger hexes this can be minimised, but never really goes away.

The advantages are storage and transport. I could pack away my 3x4' playing area in a reasonably small bag and if using polystyrene, it was light.

Obviously the other area to look at is the game system you are using. I used it to play board games with figures, specifically SPI Modern battle quads, Wurzburg in particular. If you have no specific rules, then hexes do a great job regulating movement and fire combat. However I generally abandoned the use of hexes a long time ago, but have decided to reinvestigate it recently.

I wanted a set of rules which allowed me to play an actual historical Napoleonic battle within a day and it was suggested I go back to the SPI quad games. I picked Marengo initially, but have now converted all four games and will probably do the last battles quad as well. The last battles quad will allow me to play the entire waterloo campaign, all four battles, on a 6x8' playing area. Its large, but heck, I am refighting Ligny, Quatre Bras, Waterloo and Wavre, or at least trying to, so 6x8' is not unreasonable.

The issue I had was the hexes, in the end I modified the rules to allow me to play the games hex less, it took some effort, but it works reasonably well so I now going down the hex less path. My only issue is I need to create some very custom terrain, so the mdf boards and jig-saw has been busy lately. Each quad game fits onto a 3x4' playing area. I have not yet created my waterloo campaign playing area yet, and its possible I never will – but I would love to.

I did a Video‌ on my investigations; the links to the board games and the scenario material I have created are in the description.

Almost as old as this thread, here is a paper on … chosing both:

link

Analog vs digital

Games played on a grid (hex or square) present the player with a finite number of choices which are binary. There are no gray areas. The unit is either in range or out of range. The unit is either in terrain or not. Etc. With non-gridded playing surfaces there are infinite possibilities and most of those fall into gray areas, ie half the unit is in range to fire, or one quarter of the unit is under cover. Or not sure if the unit was able to make contact on there charge so let's just flip a coin. Not sure if the firing arc exceeds 45 degrees, it's close. So many complications and complexity involved in playing traditional non grid miniature games that for years I've avoided them all together.

Games played on a grid (hex or square) present the player with a finite number of choices which are binary. There are no grey areas.

Very true and as primarily a board gamer i would always go down the hex path for board games. However these days board gaming or at least the traditional board gaming i use to like, such as the old SPI games, seems to have declined. I can get opponents at clubs for figure gaming, or multi-play board games, such as civilisation, but no one for board gaming. As a result i have moved into figure gaming, and hexes and squares are not as popular in that medium. Thus my comments are primary focused on figure gaming.

But as for the "analogue" nature of non-hex based gaming, it often depends on the rules if this ever becomes an issue. I have being using LWRS for moderns and WW2 and found them surprisingly crisp. But I must admit many squad scale, or platoons, scale figure gaming rules are not as crisp. I remember playing in a competition many years ago, using the WRG moderns rules, and someone brought a type of periscope along to determine if tanks could see each other. He placed the periscope on top of the tank and looked down into it. It was highly subjective and did not work well, considering the tanks were 1/300 and the ground scale was 1/4000 it also made no sense.

I have re-read this thread and it is facinating. The thing that supprises me is that nobody mentions Advanced Squad Leader, which covered placing of counters within the hex limiting sight lines and such. This would perhaps cover better how the system could portray complex terrain adequately but does remove the very simplified unitary hex approach. However in making the system more accurate you do away with the over simplification you put into the system.

Me, I love Hex terrain for hills and the HEXON II slope sytem is near perfect but hexing sight lines is not acceptable for me.

Here are some closeup pictures of my 6mm terrain:

They are all hexagon shaped tiles. I have enough to cover a 6x8 foot table. I also have desert terrain too.

Wolfhag

Very nice!

That's great. Do you have more photos or a blog, please?

This is terrain for 6mm games. I do have other pictures. This was all given to me so I can't take credit for it or give you any details. I think they are about 15-20 years old.

Wolfhag

Here are a few more:

The hexes give a lot of options and are actually pretty quick to set up.

Wolfhag

I played Epic 40K with hexes. I used a template to put dots over my 12" Geo-Hex pieces to make a smaller 4" grid over it. I did that because I kept feeling like I was spending too much time thinking about the specific locations of tiny little figures on a big table. I liked this a lot, but haven't done it recently.

I have used them for a fantasy large skirmish, too, and it seemed OK, but I haven't kept that up.

andy

The biggest issue with hexes, or squares, with figure gaming is it affects the bling. Many people like figure gaming because of the look and feel and hexes can detract. Rules such as Vom Krieg (Napoleonic) attempt to deal with this by providing hints on how to make the hexes less visible, which works, but takes a lot of effort to create. Other rules, such as D-Day to berlin (WW2), which uses squares, suggest you place a dot where each square is supposed to reside. This reduces the effect, but does not eliminate the negative effect. I am looking at using SPI Prestags rules (Ancients) with figures and am creating a playing area with the hexes as faintly drawn as possible. From a distance you cannot see the hexes, but close up they are still visible. I am uncertain how this will fly, but I will see what other figure games feel about it.

This video provides some details about this: youtu.be/BO6_tP0-xI4

As for benefits, the main one is the rules can be a lot simpler. Its possible to convert a hex based board game into a hex less format for figure gaming, such as SPI napoleon at War, but you need more rules to cater for the greater complexity of a free form gaming system. youtu.be/CyFpX1Q2dcA

I have completed my beta hex based playing area and while it did not turn out how I wanted it to, it proved surprisingly viable. I decided to refight the Marathon scenario from the SPI Prestags board game using figures. Myy opinion of the Prestags systems did go up a lot after playing a few games.

When I purchased the board games back in the 1980's and tried to play some games, I found the look and feel was not conducive to play. Now I have tried it on a traditional figure gaming playing area with actual figures, it has a much nicer look and feel. This video provided a play through for the first proper, non-play-test, game I completed. youtu.be/ZF8axK2nhDU

I will probably try to refight Cannae or Zama once I have rebased by Carthaginians and created a large enough playing area for that scenario. I think hexes works well for new players and hex based rules are simpler, but you do need a reasonably large playing area as hexes are not as space efficient as a grid-less system.

I use a 54x30 hex grid for my ww2 games. I don't think it looks bad and it makes movement, line of sight, and cover effects a breeze. It's also great for tanks because you can know whether you are shooting at front or side armor without a angle measurement.

The game gets into the action much quicker. I can easily move a few dozen tanks and infantry squads in under 60 seconds.

I picked a 2nd scenario from PRESTAGES to give my hex playing area another go, video can be found here: youtu.be/K6qDbttZn9c I will make a 2nd 120x80cm playing area so I have field a larger playing area, as some scenarios require room to manoeuvre.

Hexes do work and the negative aesthetic of the actual hexes became less of an issue as I played the game. I had issues with terrain, as most hex less terrain features does not work very well with hexes. I will pick up some 6cm hexes from warbases.co.uk, and place some terrain features on them to see if that will work, such as roads, rivers and some hills.. It works on my 4cm bases for micro-armour so I suspect that is the best way to insert terrain on a hex playing area. There is no doubt play is more rapid and the rules simpler using hexes, but there is an aesthetic hit. Once I complete my hex-less mods and run a few games I will determine how it compares.

I have used hex grid, square grid and no grid. While it may depend on the type of game you are playing, I prefer hex, no grid, and if I really have to use them, square grids.

While a no grid system can be more realistic, you almost need templates in some games just to figure out movement. Hex grids simplify a game significantly, allowing quicker game play, but they can also limit the size of a miniature by almost forcing the design to fit into the grid, so that other minis can be next to them.

I have a game that uses square grids, and just don't like the movement/fire calculations.

End of the day, a good game designer will have rules that work for hex or hexless.