"Purchasing 25/28mm ships - desperation takes hold!" Topic

Hi all,

I've been looking to buy two or three 25/28 mm ships for pirate role-playing and you wouldn't believe the problems I've been having! Ideally I want a small ship such as a sloop or brigantine as the players' ship; a token merchantman as a 'target' ship for any boarding actions and a 'pirate hunter' as a nemesis. It would be great if I could find ones that were around 14 – 24 inches or so. It's not critical, but I don't really want three ships in excess of 2 feet each around if possible!

I love the design of Old Glory's brigantine, but it's just way too narrow to be useful. Their other ships are doubtless accurate (and glorious!), but just too large and there's nothing else in their range to be a suitable player characters' vessel.

Stronghold/Village Green just aren't in production at the moment.

Dixon, well, I ordered one, it was faulty and there was never any offer of a replacement, even though I offered to buy one each of both their ships IF they could supply decent ones. No response was forthcoming beyond a refund for the faulty ship.

The Shifting Lands ones are really pretty, but not really to my taste.

As to Minimi and Flagship Games, let's just say that I'd prefer something a little more detailed and authentic than these two ranges.

Sailpower may be producing a 28 mm sloop, which would be interesting, but would still leave me at a loss to find the others.

The only other one I can think of is from Games of War. They have long promised a medium sized ship, but no sign at all yet.

I really *don't* want to go down the scratchbuilding route. Are there ANY options I might have missed ?

Best,
Gangrel

check out some of the toys. The hulls are quite usable after some paint and some minor to moderate rework.

I picked up a few hulls from a toy found at Big Lots for less than $10. USD They were about 10" long. The masts and the guns were ridiculous but easily replaced. The hull was molded in dark blue and orange. After painting the hull dark brown it really started looking great. Add some wooden dowel for masts and it looks like a real ship.

Another source is MegaBlocks Pyrates and Pirates of the Carribean line of kits. The hulls and masts are quite nice. However the decks are covered in 'not-Lego' pegs. You can easily cut cardstock or thin balsa to make decking.

Britannia. Their ships are achingly expensive, but they do have all the detail on them.

FWIW, I bought the Minimi ones and they're actually very good in the resin. I don't think the photos on their website do them justice.

Try the Playmobil brand – no "not-Lego" pegs to work around:

link

Gangrel;

You should be looking at the Black Cutlass in the Old Glory line. It is the size of the Dixon and Redoubt ships. Also, if you are interested, we can still cast up one of the old Adventure Galley's for you, which again is the same size as the Dixon man of War.

Again, the Black Cutlass and the Adventure Galley are about the same size in length and width. The Black Cutlass can be purchased without the Ghostly crew. The Adventure Galley cost the same as the Black Cutlass without crew.

You might want to look at 'Minimi Miniatures'

Thier pirate ship range is okay, and is more affordable then most.

minimi.co.uk/pirates/index.htm

Had not seen the Britanna ships before, WOW.

Try Megabloks ships from the Pirates of Carribean line. Definitley 25/28mm scale although quite large for the average wargaming table.

The floor on the other hand is just perfect…

Thanks for the responses so far, guys.

How difficult would it be to renovate those Megablocks or Playmobil ships, and does anyone have photographs of the end results/process? I understand it's less effort than scratch-building, but you still have to waterline the ships – how hard it to do that, and are there any guides as to the process?

Miniatureships, the problem is that the Black Cutlass suggestion, it is almost 3 feet, and then Gangrel must find two other ships to use with it!
If that is the player ship, how would it be a challenge to go after a merchantman?

Eclectic Wave, we have examined Minimi Miniatures' ships (albeit not in person) and would take some convincing that they are indeed better than the photographs, or in the correct style to begin with.

Thanks, El

I did say that Minimi ships were only "okay", their price was the most appealing feature.

It sounds like what you really want is to track down a copy of Gary Chaulk's article and plans for sratch building pirate ships. The plans are pretty good, and there are a number of web pages with more instructions for modifing them.

I have a WarGames Ruins pirate ship, real nice. Unfortunely they went out of business (the exact same week I went to order 2 more pirate ships and a chinise junk they had!) and it was resin kit you had to put together. Took some work (and a some green stuff putty) but it was worth it.

Examples of converted toys:
link
link
link
link

I understand. :)
The Minimi ships probably wouldn't properly satisfy, and it's a lot of work and time to paint them as stand-ins until Gangrel can find another set of ships (without mentioning money).
It's an educated guess, but for the time and money that would go into buying stand-in ships, Gangrel would rather use deck plans or just wait until he can find another set of ships.

I think Gangrel has a copy of Gary Chaulk's article from a while back. We've seen some of the results, and they are quite alright, just it still involves scratch building which is the ultimate last-ditch step… Which we're not confident would turn out well.
I've said if we don't find anything by the Summer, I'll have a go at making some, but I've never done ships before.

Yes, I had heard WarGames Ruins did good ships, and seen some mid-construction photographs. They went under and were bought by another company that also closed. It's a damn shame.

At the moment, we're really out of options, it's either wait and see if Stronghold miniatures recover later in the year (The chap in charge said ships are most likely to start producation after Salute, but life does have a habit of getting in the way of the best laid plans), or well, I don't know.

Thanks, El

Dear Gangrel,

If you're looking for alternatives, you might consider comissioning Richard Houston. He's made any number of 5/28mm masted ship models (Junks, Pirates, etc) and, depending on the size and features you want, are in a range of prices.

Anything would be an original and built specifically for gaming by a gamer (who quietly digs Pirates!).

You may visit The (Virtual) Armchair General and go to the Houston's Ships pages and his Gallery for photo examples of many kinds of ship models to see for yourself.

In any event, good hunting!

TVAG

Check out the Disney's Pirates of the Carribean Black Pearl remote controlled ship. I bought three of them fer $12 USD a pop. You will have to cut the hull down, but lots of room fer figs and fairly to 28mm scale. After cutting the hull down, its an easy conversion…

They might still be on the Disney store site…

I suggest Sailpower for the sloop.

I talked to one of the guys recently via e-mail about that vessel. Since they have a photo of it on the website, it might be available soon, or could probably be put into production quickly.

Not sure on the other vessels you seek.

Sorry to hear the Dixon vessel was defective. I was looking forward to those being available again.

Build your own out of super sculpy. its easier than you think.

diorocollectibles.blogspot.com

Chuck

Thanks for all the responses, people. To comment on a few:

As I said in my original post, I want to avoid scratchbuilding – I have no faith in my abilities to do this and achieve anything like the results I'd want. Not to mention I just don't have the time to build ONE ship, let alone three! To those of you than can manage something along these lines; good luck to you – I'm envious!

As to Minimi, like I said in the first post, they're really not for me unless those photos on the website are seriously misleading. I wouldn't say price isn't an object, but I'd rather pay more for a quality product than save a little and get something I don't like.

Sailpower; if they do the quarterdeck variant of the sloop, as discussed in these parts, that might be interesting, but it would still leave me looking for more ships. Not much mileage in having boarding actions with only one ship! :-)

Old Glory – *sigh* I just LOVE the look of those ships, I really do. If only that brig was broader then I'd have bought it in a shot. The Black Cutlass really doesn't look like anything I'm after (and I have no idea what the Adventure Galley looks like). I kind of like the frigate as an adversary ship, but it's still BIG and with no possibility of a small player character ship, that's not a way I want to go.

I forgot Britannia Miniatures back up there (I knew I'd forget someone) – glorious but really they only do warships. If they did a couple of smaller ships that would be great.

Sorry to sound so negative but I really DO appreciate everyone's suggestion. Thanks to all.

Best,
Gangrel

I fully understand.

I want to do Blackbeard's last fight, but am having difficulty finding suitable vessels for that as well, in either 15mm, or 28mm scales.

A sloop for his ship is easy enough to come by, but the small impressed merchants used by his pursuers are impossible to find.

Hopefully, Sailpower will come through with a couple of vessels of different sizes, larger than a pinnace, but smaller than a sloop, and sporting just two swiveling rail guns each.

If you're UK based try to pick up a copy of Waddingtons "Ghostly Galleon" at a car boot sale. It contains a waterline ship model which with a bit of work should be just what you are after.

Ignoring the scratch-building option which is a no-go, I think the main problem that Gangrel face is:
- Finding three ships in a similar style (and at the same time!) – either by the same manufacturer or or in a very similar vein.
There's no point converting a toy ship (if he actually wanted to) and then having no options other than to convert an identical ship or go with another markedly different style. Especially difficult would be finding a merchantman.

I think we can agree there's no shortage of decent stand-alone pirate ships. It's when you try to get more than one you have problems.

Actually, I'd just be happy to find ANY leads that point to ships that aren't either from the manufacturers above, scratch built, or converted toys!

There is one other manufacturer I'd forgotten – Eureka in Australia. I've only seen one photo though and it just looked a little odd and very low in the 'water'. Has anyone seen it in the 'flesh'?

Best,
Gangrel

The only Eureka item I have seen is a deck set, for use in melee combat.

Not really a ship per se, but just the decking – you have to imagine the ship around it, as your figures fight for their survial in a boarding action.

Gangrel,

What is wrong with the Dixon vessel casting?

Which vessel was it, e.g. sloop, or merchant?

Didn't they offer to send you a replacement, instead of a refund? That would seem to be the logical solution to me.

I am interested in their sloop, but would like to see a photo of it, and am now disheartened to hear that the casting is sub-par.

Best regards,

Rob

Have you looked at OLD Glory's 25mm Gunboats and Galleys? The larger among them are 12-15+ inches in length. They may be too narrow for your needs but worth a look. Can't comment from personal use although I do have a couple of their's in 15mm. link

Gangerel . . .

perhaps we could create something that fits the bill

how about a 10 inch 4 gun quarterdeck sloop?

the existing 28MM great sloop is 12 guns and 14 inches

I am looking to make a few new things in this scale but i need to find things people are really looking for, and are not made by other companies.

28MM ship molds tend to be larger in size, thus cost more to produce, thus finding something worth the resources that is truly new is a challenge

Top gun Ace,

I may just build your pursuers by kit bashing one of my other kits (eg backfill the gunports, change the rig and details)

Hi again,

Brian, I have no problems at all with the size of your current 28 mm sloop (is it actually in production? I thought it was just a 'proposed' product at the moment). She's a fine looking vessel and my only issues would be that I'd prefer something a little more 'swashbuckly', hence with a quarterdeck and possibly a little less cluttered on deck. That said, I'm sure your ship is absolutely accurate and appropriate; it's just that from a role-playing background I'm used to placing 'story' and 'feel' over accuracy. The other issue were I to go with your sloop as a player character vessel is what do I do about the other two ships? Is the quarterdeck variant suggested in another thread here likely to go ahead?

And, Virtual Armchair General, those custom ships look great. Just not sure I could afford three custom built ships. Particularly with the way the pound is going against the dollar!

As to Dixons, I'd rather not, out of fairness to them, discuss it in public. Is there a private message system here that I've not found? Suffice to say I was EXTREMELY disappointed in the ship I was sent and in general, the level of service I received. I couldn't recommend the ships at all on the basis of what I received and I think it says a lot that I was immediately offered a refund rather than a replacement (even though I twice asked if that was possible).

Thanks for the info on the Eureka 'ship'. I thought it looked odd from the one small photo I'd seen, but I hadn't realised it was just a deck (they do call it a ship on their website).

Yet again, thanks to everyone for their contributions. Best,
Gangrel

Okay, you don't want to try scratch building, which frankly, I don't blame you for. I have had those Gary Chaulk plans for 8 years and have never felt that I was capable enough to do a good job scratch building.

There are some options between buying a ready made ship and scratch building. I have seen a number if sites where people took those premade wooden ship models and sawed off the bottom half of the hull. A little paint and they are using them for gaming. They look great, but the decks are rather cluttered, and from what I have seen, not a lot of room for minatures on the decks.

The second is have you looked at Paper models? Worldworks have a number of pirate themed paper models, a really large pirate ship, and a Pirate island that comes with a number of small boats. I make a lot of paper models for my gaming. It's cheap, easy (for the most part) and since I have just enough artistic ability to cut a straight line (and not to much beyond that) perfect for my skills. I don't recall any smaller sloop sized ships though. Here's some links

WorldWorks Pirate's collection with the new "Atlantis"

link

A really nice long boat.

link

And then this Disney site has two pirate ships, the Black Pearl and the Wicked Wench (the name of the pirate ship in the Disney Pirate ride!)

link

The deck clutter is a builder's choice. The more deck fixtures you add, the more clutter there is . . . just leave off a few details when you build up the ship. As long as you choose a few well spaced and placed details it will look fine.

bcarnes,

I'd like to see a 12 – 14" long sloop, with a small, covered cabin at the rear, and 8 guns, in 28mm scale.

I would also like to see the same in 15mm scale too.

These would be great for Blackbeard's last battle.

The same, or slightly similar hulls, without the cabin at the rear, could be used for a merchant, or working sloop/fishing vessel.

I've sent photos of a couple of models to you, for your review of the Bermudan/Jamaican Sloops. Apparently, the last sloop Blackbeard used was named Adventure, after the sinking of his larger 80 ton "Adventure" sloop, and was a Spanish vessel, found abandoned/or captured, near Havana.

Not sure what happened to the vessel after Blackbeard was killed.

For the Ranger, and Jane, I think your 15mm pinnaces might work, and/or a slightly larger vessel. Supposedly, they were both working sloops, pressed into service to pursue Blackbeard, since the larger RN vessels could not pursue him into the waters of the Carolina Sounds safely, without fear of grounding.

Best regards,

Rob

Meant to say, "The same, or slightly smaller hulls, without the rear cabin…" for the sloops.

Cheers Brian,

Thatb sloop really is very nice indeed. Is the quarterdeck variant you've previously discussed a real possibility? As to other 28 mm ships, I'd love to msee a smaller twin masted merchantman; nobody seems to make a merchant ship other than a large East Indianman.

Best,
Gangrel

I plan on creating a quarterdeck version of the 28MM great sloop soon. adding a quarterdeck is a fairly simple modification

--Brian

I think the problem is scale when you are looking for a sloop for gaming on are you after a large deck surface with a small number of guns?

what sort of surface area are you looking at?

How much detail etc?

As I've previously said, I'm a role-player looking for a mix of accuracy and the right 'look'. I'm no expert but I know when something looks just plain wrong. I want enough room to manoeuvre figures and enough 'set dressing' to give atmosphere and oportunities for swashbuckling! I know that's not the most specific of answers but it is the heart of it!

Hmm, I think the guys have covered whats out there on the market as have you yourself. If its for role play I would tend to take another look at the Eureka deck pieces as they could be your bag. I think you may be able to add additional sections to make a ship larger or smaller.

Then the dressing up part would be clutter on the deck etc.

No, I don't think the Eureka deck sections are at all what I'm looking for. Thanks for the help guys, but it's looking like this is a project that's *a-hem* 'dead in the water'. A shame though, it would have been fun.

You might consider switching to 15mm for the vessels, and/or boarding actions. That is what I am going to do to start, since I am on a rather tight budget.

The Tiger Terrain ships appear to be quite nice, and you can get the vessels desired, e.g. a two-masted Sloop/Brig, a three masted warship, a merchant, a beautiful frigate, and even a larger, 60 gun vessel.

The models look superb, and they are reasonably priced, especially when compared to 28mm vessels.

I have written, and asked the owner to consider producing a single-masted sloop, with 8 x guns, since I think that will sell very well. A small, merchant sloop would be very useful too.

You can use the smaller vessels as backdrops for 28mm games, forcing the distance perspective for your larger figures, when conducting amphibious landings, and other land battles.

I think the 28mm figs would be better for boarding actions in close quarters, since they are larger, so easier to see and move, but I am going to try it in 15mm to start, to keep costs low. The smaller scale will permit more maneuvering room on the tabletop for the naval actions, and permit me to make a nice coastal fort easily, out of cardboard, or foam, on a small budget.

For 28mm actions, in the interim, I will be using some of the free templates to build my own vessels from cardboard, wood, and foam.

I agree with you on the dearth of decent, nice looking vessels for 28mm gaming being available, especially for the smaller types, e.g. single-masted sloops, and merchants.

I wish they would re-release the Village Green models.

While Tiger Terrain's 15mm ships are simply superb; better than many 25mm ones, it's not the way forward for me (and they're ceasing production). Role-playing is pretty much fixed in 25/28 mm (apart from early Traveller) and the rules we'd be using are very much designed for this scale. I don't want to be switching between two scales/movement rates/weapon ranges deepending on whether there's a boarding action or a tavern brawl going on! Besides which, on a purely prosaic level, I've already bought and painted many Black Scorpion miniatures.

Best,
Gangrel

I fully understand.

Actually, they are not so much ceasing production, as looking for a suitable place in which to continue it.

Not sure how quickly that will pan out, but I believe they plan on adding new items to their range, and continuing production, eventually.

Hopefully, someone will read this thread, e.g. a manufacturer, or three, and make some really nice looking, historically accurate 25mm/28mm vessels for a reasonable cost.

The thing I find most frustrating (after not getting hold of any ships at all, anyway) is looking over the Old Glory site and lusting over their ships, only to find there's nothing that fits the bill. I just think their products look fantastic, but that gorgeous brigantine is slim to the point of anorexia, then the next stage up is three masted ornate galleon types. I'm tempted by the frigate as a 'nemesis'-type vessel, but without one for the player characters that would be rather pointless. BTW I did see photos of someone's work on the out of production Adventure Galley recently. That's a site to behold – truly fantastic, a shame it's no longer available.

Best,
Gangrel

Check out laserdreamworks.com for a complete range of wooden ship kits from 8 gun cutters to 18 gun sloops of war!

Ainsty is now producing some very nice vessels too, which were out of production for some time, and previously sold by Dixon.

I'd like to see a 12 – 14" long sloop, with a small, covered cabin at the rear, and 8 guns, in 28mm scale.

Except that its only six guns, Old Glory's "OGP42, 6 Gun Schooner" sounds like the ship you want.

I admit I've thought once or twice about the model. If I bought it though, I'd re-rig it. Step the fore-mast abaft the fore-deck, and the main mast just forward of the quarter-deck… Probably also carve a recess in the hull either side under the quarter-deck, drill a hole in, and stick a dowel in it painted black like the guns… i.e., make her an eight-gun sloop. For symmetry I'd probably cut eight small squares of plasti-card scribed like planking, and glue 'em in place as gun covers with a bit of string running up to a draw-hole.