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"Medieval ships?" Topic


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Comments or corrections?

Verderer11 Jan 2009 3:34 p.m. PST

I was wondering what kind of ships were in use around years 1150 to 1300, especially on the Mediterranean Sea? I know Cogs certainly were, and those Arabian lateen rig types (dhow?) What about galleys, were they in common use in this area and at this time?

Can you recommend a good source about ships in this period, please?

Tgerritsen Supporting Member of TMP11 Jan 2009 9:31 p.m. PST

From 1150 to 1300 warfare was almost exclusively the province of the galley in the med (in fact all the way up to Lepanto, which was in the 16th century). Some of the designs were a bit funky (especially the Byzantine ones, which were equipped with Greek Fire emitters). Cogs weren't used in battle in the Mediterranean. They were used in battle along the coasts of England and France. In the Baltic you'd still find Galleys as well, especially toward 1150, though cogs were becoming more common by 1300.

bsrlee12 Jan 2009 3:26 a.m. PST

I seem to remember some surviving texts giving advice to pilgrims during the crusades describing the boats that you should expect to travel in – sail/oar hybrids vaguely similar to the later Italian (Veneitii and their competitors) ships, but no artillery. They tried to rely on sail but had to have a substantial numbers of rowers, but less than a 'real' military galley, because the wind direction was unreliable.

Verderer12 Jan 2009 4:23 a.m. PST

Thanks, people. This is useful stuff for me. I have some Langton ships I was contemplating to use with some Crusader scenarios. They're from the Lepanto era, so I wasn't sure if they fit the earlier period. Some of them naturally won't.

Condottiere, which Ospreys are you referring to? I can't find anything else but the Campaign book on Lepanto and the Renaissance Galley on Osprey site? And these are naturally for a later period.

I received a batch of books today from Amazon, and skimming them I noticed that David Nicole's Crusader Warfare has a chapter on Medieval fleets and ships.

GildasFacit Sponsoring Member of TMP12 Jan 2009 5:52 a.m. PST

Medieval galleys, though similar in operation to later, Renaissance, galleys would look different. Less decoration in general and obviously no gun platform at the bow, usually smaller too – and beamier.

Cogs would be rare in the Med even in 1300 except as visitors from Northern waters. Sailing ships in the Med were less beamy and sometimes larger – try doing an image search on 'Nau' and also look at any Venetian or Geonese ships, they are fairly characteristic of the era.

Galleys of various types would be the most common craft but not necessarily the low freeboard types. Merchant galleys combined sail and oar and were quite different, deeper in the hold and sometimes with upper decks as well.

Sails would still be mostly lateen but some square sails were used, particularly ones at the bow, similar to the Roman Artemon.

Mithridates12 Jan 2009 4:25 p.m. PST

V – W L Rodgers, Naval Warfare under Oars, 4th to 16th Centuries, US Naval Institute 1940, reprinted 1977 has information on the 1st Crusade as well as the Italian naval Wars.

Covers the 13th century including the 4th Crusade. He includes some illustrations including a shot from the Leaning Tower that has 2 broad beamed sailing vessels with fore and aft towers (dated around 1200) as well as a Venetian merchant galley from around 1400.

Happy rowing

RockyRusso13 Jan 2009 11:34 a.m. PST

Hi

I have a library on the subject, I like Rodgers. I think he repeats the "Roccaforte" tale that Oman refers to, which is about such a two castle round ship beating up several cannon armed galleys.

Good stuff.

Rocky

balticbattles15 Jan 2009 1:29 p.m. PST

Tgerritsen – I wasn't aware that there were galleys in the baltic between Viking Longships and Cogs? Anywhere I can read up on this?

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