"Were there Feudal Portuguese?" Topic

Hey gents,

Time to share some more knowledge? Did Portugal exist as a military power in the late Feudal/early medieval times? Would the Portuguese army be identical to say, Feudal Spanish? I have been interested in building an army around the time of Joao or a bit earlier. Maybe 1200 – 1300?

Would Normans be a suitable set or possibly an El Cid range? Thanks gents.

Aren't they one of the "killer" DBX armies?

I know DBM has lists for them. I would think they would look similar to their Spanish cousins.

I don't have any "DBX" books. I never got into those games so I never found the need for the books. Armati has a Feudal Spanish list so I just wondered if I should use that as a list. I just don't know what kind of figures would be appropriate. Did they look more like European feudals, normans or did they have their own look?

Portugal was an independent kingdom during the middle ages, beginning in 1143. In 1373 Portugal and England (later Britain) formed an alliance, which endures to this day (held to be the longest lasting alliance in history).

No practical (tactical) differences between "Spanish" and Portugese, as far as I know.

Interestingly, a bit later, the English supported Portugal's "rebellion" against Castille (John I's wife was the daughter of the late king): this is during the HYW, and, the "commonalty" in Lisbon and four other principle cities "elected" their own sovereign, not wanting to be ruled by Castille: they chose the late king of Portugal's bastard brother, the grand master of the Portugese Military Order of Avis. Most of the nobility were less than enthused, but he managed a very big win against the Castillians and their French allies at the battle of Aljubarota: this one-sided victory (in which the English bowmen played a key role) then gained the king of Portugal the fealty and devotion of the nobility, which had up till then held aloof. Froissart's account is quite vivid. And the inference is that the chivalry on all sides was virtually identical and intermingled through marriages and alliances, i.e. no differences worthy of notice.

Earlier this was just as true. The only visual differences I know of are the tendency of all Iberian armies to be much lighter armed: the fully armed knightly element formed a smaller portion to the whole of the cavalry. This was because of the nature of "Spanish" warfare, which was more devoted to swift mounted raids than pitched battles. "Norman" appearance right through the 12th century was typical; but helmets tended to be round-topped rather than conical; and round shields were much in vogue as well as the "heart-shaped" adarga introduced by the Moors.

In fact, visually, there was not that much to distinguish the Moors in Spain and the Christians: both had borrowed a great deal from each other during the centuries of strife….

1066.us

Don't most "Feudal Spanish" lists contain all sorts of variants, including those for Portugal, or the equivalent?
I sold my DBM lists long ago, and I don't know where my Warrior lists are, but I think I remember THAT much.
The differences are usually along the line of "more of X, and fewer of Y" troops.

Army lists are useful, even if you don't play the rules they are for. One asumes that the writer has done at least SOME of the research you want.
The WRG book, "Armies of Feudal Europe", or "Armies of the Crusades" should also contain the information you want.

Normans are fine for the XI-XII centuries with a mix of Andalusians. Also, give them more archers as they had a better status in Portugal than in other Christian Iberian kingdoms.

Portuguese tend to be traditional so a few earlier period figures are OK in later armies (but don't exaggerate).

Actually the Auld Alliance between Scotland and France is older than England/Portugal by 80 or so years

Actually the Auld Alliance between Scotland and France is older than England/Portugal by 80 or so years

The Republic of France still honors it, even though their government has no commonality with or relation to the one that signed it, and Scotland is now part of a confederated nation?

That's truly freakish.
-Kle.

That can't be right. France has clearly fought wars AGAINST Scotland since that treaty was signed, albeit after Scotland had joined the UK. During the Napoleonic wars for instance.

That "Auld Alliance" must surely be meaningless now, possibly has been for centuries. By my reckoning it became null and void in the late 18th century.

If one maintains that the Anglo-Portuguese alliance endured despite such things as the Spanish occupation of the throne in the 17th century, then one could similarly maintain that the Franco-Scottish alliance is merely in abeyance until the Scots disentangle themselves from the United Kingdom.

lol :)