"Does anyone know any True 25s." Topic

Hey guys,

I miss my old 25s. I have been trying to find someone who actually makes true 25s or at the very most 26s. I like the old WRG basing system as it fits well with a few games I play today. The problem is most GW figures and quite a few "Heroic" lines of figures are too big.

I would like to find some that mesh with my old Ral Partha stuff. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Minifigs

I've got about 10-lbs of old Ral Partha and Garrison Romans, Persians, and misc. I'll never get to painting. What are you looking for?.
Bill

Ral Partha historicals are stil available from Iron Wind Metals:

ironwindmetals.com

Also look at Rafm.

Megaminis.com
Has some old Grenadier stuff, and other 25 mm figures.

link
Mirliton has a lot of old Grenadier stuff.

lance-and-laser.com

sbarber-models.clara.net
Steve Barber Models carries a range of 25mm historicals which can be used for fantasy gaming

Garrison. The 20mm ranges are 'true' true 25mm, as are most of the 25mm ranges – main differences are in the 'heft' of the figures. Includes Ancients and Fantasy and there are limited size comparisons in the gallery.

garrisonminiatures.com

Minifigs is still making real 25mm.

classic miniatures has a bunch of old heritage figs in production as well as the old Ral Partha armies of the Hyborian age. I plan an picking up a bunch as soon as I can.

classicminiatures.net

When I was hard core 25mm Ancients years ago, my armies ere Minifigs, Hinchliffe, Lamming, Garrison, Naismith Design, RAFM and Essex.

SOME of these ranges may still be in production!

How much are the 25mm figs from classicminiatures.net?

If you want to buy stuff that matches your Ral Partha, buy new ones--get them at conventions--from Iron Wind Metals. Irregular Miniatures from the UK has extensive 25mm ranges, many of which are fully compatible with old RP and Minifig.

I would bet that the Scruby range from Historifigs has true 25s as well.

If you e-mail the guy who runs classic miniatures through the web site he will send you a a list of what is currently available with prices. Figure are about 2-3 dollars each depending on what they are and the guy who opperates it is really nice. You can check out some of the stuff on the deciples of heritage yahoo group that he runs.

Eureka have a number of 25mm ranges such as the Sumerians. Some are 28mm such as the Assyrians

Thanks for the help. I didn't realize that Grenadier was true 25. I always thought it was more 28 or so.

I was looking for a specific Ral Partha set in particular. Lord Harcourts Knights of the Golden Way. Or at least the archers. They were the best bowmen I have ever seen.

I think pretty much anything Feudal or Medieval would be good.

"True 25" = 25mm avg to top of head?

I find Grenadier to more like 26mm – 'heroic' but not out of scale with 25s

1/72nd scale plastics?

The Grenadier stuff varies a lot in size so be careful there. I think the later Fantasy Warriors figures are more like 28mm.

GypsyComet said:

"True 25" = 25mm avg to top of head?

The old fashioned way.

Just like in real life, measured to the top of the head.

Any other way is an excuse for scale creep.

Not that that is bad…just falsehood.

IMHO, of course.

Gracias,

Glenn

Measure to the eyes--anytime you say "head" some people mean top of skull and others include the height of helmets, etc. Headgear does not a scale make.

The original Prince August fantasy molds were true 25mm. Their Elven molds produce figures which are as tall as their Human molded figures, but they are nice. Their Goblin molds are decidedly small figures, being true 25mm scale, and small of heft. I had their Wolf Rider mold, and it produced Goblins which look tiny next to the plastic Goblins from the BattleMasters board game set. The wolves look like large dogs, next to true 25's, and smaller dogs, next to 28-30mm figures.

If you don't mind casting your own, these molds are a great way to produce decent figures, at a very small price, typically less than $0.60/figure (if you use Model Metal; less, if you use free lead gotten from automotive tire changing stores -- used tire weights, just ask for them). Their Orc Stormtrooper mold produces really nice, heavily armored Orcs. Cheers!

"top of the head"

"to the eyes"

and now you know why the question was asked…

Griveton;

I just recently completed a project to amass over 1200 "Old School" 25's for Vikings, Anglo-Danes, Saxons, etc. for Alfred's Wars, and I would like to share my experiences and some tips with you. This collection includes Ral Partha, Citadel, Frontier, Lamming, Garrison, Hinchcliffe, Heritage, Grenadier, Minifigs, Superior and a few stray fantasy barbarians.

1. Minifigs, however charming and good or bad (the eye of the beholder) they may be, they DO NOT mix well with Partha. Some individual figures, rare, will blend in with careful painting and they are fine in separate units, but not mixed generally.

2. The only range of figures that ever blended perfectly with Partha in both size and style were the short-lived Partha Imports/Citadel Dark Ages and Medieval ranges. Some will tell you, even on TMP, that these figures still exist in the GW empire if you only know the "secret code" – This is NOT TRUE. This is confirmed both by the Stuff of Legends site and by contacting GW and patiently waiting for a reply. I also bought several of the "recommended" figures and confirmed that they were not the same. However, through ads on TMP and Bartertown, I was able to round up about 200 of the actual Citadel DA figures at very reasonable prices. There are gamers out there with these figures and they don't fit in with anything new. They also still show up on Ebay, but the prices are noticibly higher.

3. The figures from Mega Miniatures, through their ebay store, are Julie Guthrie figures, most ex-Grenadier, and are excellent. The foot are $1.50 USD and the mounted $5.00, there are many Feudal and Medieval figures, and some excellent "personality" figures such as a knight with hawk, female characters, clerics, etc. These figures are of a similar style and anatomical size to Ral Partha, but the bases are much thicker, about 3mm, where Partha's are usually very thin and flat, about 1mm. You can compensate for this in a mixed unit by mounting the Partha figures on a US penny and then on your base. They will look fine together when finished.

4. You could build an excellent Feudal army by using Partha's Crusades range with additional figures from their French, English, German and Scottish ranges mixed in; then add some figures from Garrison's Hyborean range (one of the best mounted Kings ever) and some Mega Minis.

5. You can build an excellent later Medieval army using Garrison's Medievals (100YW era) with some Mega Minis mixed in and maybe a few Partha.

6. For variety, you can also build a late Dark Ages/Early Feudal Byzantine army from Garrison's Byzantine range. Partha's are more early Byzantine (Belisarian to Heraclean). And you can find excellent figures for mercenaries/allies from Partha, Garrison and Mega Minis.

7. On the "new" Partha figures from Iron Wind – Their pricing might appear a little high, but that is because the majority of their customer base are fantasy gamers buying one or two of everything and they are priced on the web site accordingly, with discounts only applying if you buy 10 of each figure. In reality, I have found them to be very helpful to historical gamers and willing to offer the discount pricing if you buy at least 4 or 5 of each figure, you just have to do business via email instead of using their site order form and checkout. They are very good about answering email if they are not at a major show or con. And these figures are cast from new molds with modern metal, much crisper and cleaner than the old Parta's were getting in the 80's.

8. The RAFM figures suggested WILL NOT work. RAFM re-designed their ranges and they are now 28mm "heroic". I got some of their Vikings (Tribe of the Midnight Sun) and they are like Foundry, BTD, Gripping Beast, etc., nice figures, but they don't mix with old Partha's and Citadel, or even old RAFM's.

So, here's your vendor list:

Ral Partha Historicals
link

Click on the link for Ral Partha Historicals at left then selct the range you want. Michael Noe at Iron Wind is great to do business with and will accomodate you if he can on pricing.

Mega Miniatures ebay store
auction

Click on the Grenadier $1.50 USD and the Cavalry $5.00 USD links on the left. You'll have to scroll through the ranges to find the individual figures you want. They are great to do business with, they ship promptly and send out great colored catalog sheets with your order

Garrison Miniatures
garrisonminiatures.com

Click on the Catalog link at top then look at the 25mm Medieval and the 25mm Fantasy (Aquiland and Nimidia). Rob Young is great, period! These are all in new molds, the exchange rate is decent right now, and Rob is always looking for ways to reduce his prices if he can.

Hope this helps you in your quest.

Burlesonbill

Note to Rwphillipsstl – The figures from Classic Miniatures are somewhat expensive. I added a few for representation in my Viking Horde, but they are priced like collectible fantasy figures, not wargaming figures.

Burlesonbill

Thanks for all the info Bill. That king is amazing. How do you find the quality of all the other Garrison products. Some of the pictures weren't very flattering.

Griveton,

The Garrison figures that I have gotten, and there have been quite a few, were excellent. Rob has made all new molds and they are being cast in sharp new metal with better QC than in days past. The sculpting style is different from Partha and some of the figures can look a little flat in 2 dimensions, but painted and based they mix well and add a bit of needed variety. I wouldn't hesitate to use Garrison, but then I like Old School figures and absolutely DO NOT like today's crop of "Heroic 28mm". The new figures do have very good detail and probably paint well with the black undercoat or GW "layered" method, but they do not have correct human proportions, many of them look like large-headed and ham-handed dwarves, and they just don't look right TO ME.

** My opinion only guys, and as long as I pay my dollar, I have as much right to it as you do to yours. **

BTW, I didn't mention them much before, but if you do a feudal or medieval army, then Hinchcliffe can also provide some useful figures. The new owner, Hinds, is making all new molds (which were badly needed) and some of these are Peter Gilder's best. I would contact Hinds to find out which new molds are available and to get samples. The sculpting is quite different from Partha or Julie Guthrie, but some of the figures will mix and offer even more variety.

Burlesonbill

Hello all,

Very interesting thread here. Thanks for the link to Iron Wind.Over the last year I have been adding to my old 25mm fantasy figures with:

Ral Partha…..Mainly from what I can find on e-bay

Garrison are great, particularly if you want real old-school miniatures and they are well suited to massed rank and file I think.

Michael at Classic-Miniatures has been a great help. He has excellent communications and has sent me a lot of Heritage minis…..Which have all been wonderful.

As far as 25mm Historicals are concerned has anyone bought from Amazon Miniatures?
Their QT range is a real find.Particularly their Design-it-Yourself system looks very interesting.

link

If you look in their gallery you can see some excellent figures.

Warrior miniatures has a huge range. I have seen some of their El-Cid figures and they appear to be true 25mm.

Has anyone bought their Crusade Miniatures range? At 40p a figure these could be a real bargain.

link

There is a lot of 25mm stuff out there. Like others here I am unwilling to switch to 28mm, even though there are many good companies.I just like my old minis.

Looking forward to un-earthing more gems.

I don't think anyone has posted the link to Hinchliffe – now owned by Hinds Models hinchliffe.co.uk/home.htm and Irregular irregularminiatures.co.uk define its Ancients as 25mm (And its army packs are good value for money)

Regarding Garrison Medievals, I got the new infantry moulds back just before Christmas – as soon as I can they will be released including bulk figure deals. Life is just a bit hectic at the moment!

Oh, and can I issue a slight correction: I am doing as many new moulds as I can but most of my moulds are still the old ones. Replacing several hundred moulds would be very expensive! Quite a few of the fantasy moulds are new, as are a lot of the Medieval and Byzantine. A few of the old moulds are still in desperate need of replacement, but generally they are replaced if I can justify it or to make life easier for me – no fun when somebody orders a couple of hundred of a figure that you have one or two on a mould and ALL of the other figures then go either into stock or back into the melting pot. Has happened.

Virtually all the Medieval infantry are now in the catalogue with photos – unpainted but with a wash of Quickshade, comments invited on that. Cavalry already there of course. Haven't sorted bulk orders yet, but most of them will be on tonight at the latest.

Farstar said:
"top of the head"

"to the eyes"

and now you know why the question was asked…

Me:
I will not re-start that old debate. We all know what the right way is. We just can't agree on what it is.

And back on topic.

This is a great thread for sources for those of us with too old school 25mm army figures in an era or a genre (like my fantasy DK dwarves) at 25mm scale – measured the way you measure humans – to contemplate changing to the larger figures.

Now, if I was starting fresh I'd have more options (and some pretty darned good ones) but I like my old school humans 25mm tall to the top of the heads with dwarves porportional. Elves I can see both smaller and taller then humans (I created my own fluff as to why) so I can use old school or the new school style figures.

Gracias,

Glenn

Does this help?

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