"Ever kill Wellington at Waterloo?" Topic

So I've been finishing up a game of Waterloo, Napoleons Last Battle on my PC…
I moved the entire French to some high ground and then layered them in a nice stout defensive line. Massed my guns along the line and waited for them to come to me.
Think "Picketts Charge".

They did…

With minimal casualties, I essentially eliminated a good 70-80% of the British Forces before the Prussians even got on the field. I would occassionally hurl a unit of French Cavalry out from the lines to smash something and then bring it back, but mostly, just used my artillery to ravage troop formations before they got close enough to attack, and when they did, 1-2 volleys of massed musketry and goodnight Irene…

After the fight, I was looking at the casualties and saw that during the battle, it looks like Wellington took a lead pill…Yeps…DEAD on the field of battle, along with most of the his staff from what I saw.

So…has anyone else ever been able to kill him on the table at Waterloo?
How did it make you feel and did it change the game in any way?

Waiting for them to come to him wasn't really an option for the real Napoleon though, was it? What with all those Prussians around and everything. Sounds like your computer Wellington was a bit of a moron.

I did once kill Bobby Lee at Gettysburg with a suicide behind-the-lines cavalry raid on a PC game. By taking a very wide detour around the battle they managed to end up in the Rebel rear, and took their chance and got the blighter.

As expected, my troopers never made it back to Union lines.

This is why computer simulations are so important in understanding history.

Allen

This is why computer simulations are so important in understanding history.

Allen

They are?

Oops, I mean, they are :O)

Not yet, but then I haven't played Waterloo on the table. As soon as I do I'm sure to kill both Wellington and Napoleon, along with their second in commands, and several other major figures. I normally have good dice, but give me a leader loss check roll and they're going down!

My worst game was Shiloh. As expected, Johnston fell. The next turn Beauregard fell. Bragg took over, and he was out an hour later. Polk bit the dust, followed by Breckenridge, and the next two guys to take over army command. Not to be outdone, my opponent lost Sherman and Grant, along with every other corps commander on the field.

Wellington, no. Napoleon, yes. A friend in CA back in the late 80s was putting on Waterloo at a con and asked me to lead the French. He spent months painting beautiful troops and building terrain. Of course, being the military genius that I am, I knew the French had to throw their full might at the British and defeat them before the Prussians arrived. I kept the Big Little Man well in front of the army, cajoling and leading the other French players forward at full speed. I was so focused on moving the French forward, I let Napoleon get too close to the other guy and some Dutch light cav charged out and picked him off. The French lost, with only 1 casualty. For some reason, the GM never spoke to me again.

NOt Wellington but 20+ years ago my friend and I were playing the old boardgame The Civil War by Victory Games. You picked leaders randomly from a hidden pool. No knowing who was who until a combat. I got Lee, Jackson and Longstreet all killed on Turn 1.

Boy, the rest of that game sure was fun for the Rebs. Not.

Mark Severin
Owner, Scale Creep Miniatures
scalecreep.com

While playing Take Command 2nd manassas, all my leaders follow bushido, sevral times when they loose their divions, or corps,(or even army) I send then straight for the enemy lines and they get cut down, dying with honor.

Also in the same game, I have sevral times lost divion commanders in the heat of battle, some times I've lost all my divion commanders, that like 20 divions each loosing their commanders, natuarly the losses of the commen soldiers was extreme, we are talking borodino extreme, in one battle using a Gettysburg OOB, I had 70 000 dead of wounded, thats just MY side, the enemy had lost 60 000, thats from 4 hours of battle

Gunfreak, I know that English is probably not your first language, but perhaps you would allow me to point out that the word "divion" should be spelled "division"?

How's your Norsk Mike, din faans roompeslikker* ?

:)

*sorry Gunfreak, that's probably atrocious

"How's your Norsk Mike"

Hopeless, but if I knew some and attempted to write it in a forum such as this I would appreciate any help offered in making it better.

I've captured him at Waterloo, does that count? It was at a Con in the mid 1990's. A group of us were in our "Valmy to Waterloo" Rules phase – in fact I think it was the last time we used them, wonderfully authentic in some respects but the firing takes way too long to calculate.

We French players used the high ground at La Belle Alliance to make it look like all our Reserves were going to swing around Wellington's right flank at Hougoumont and the Allies with their poorer command structure had to respond and start to move their reserves immediately and weaken their center.

We then wrong footed them with an advance up onto the ridge by D'Erlon with CLOSE cavalry support and light cavarly scouting the way to prevent the historical disaster. We took the ridge and unlimbered our guns to blow away the Allied infantry then brought up the Cavalry Reserve and forced them into square then blew the squares away with close range fire. Took lots of effort to maintain the combined arms tactics but the French historical command structure was up to it and Allied historical command structure wasn't.

Wellington was captured in a square of the Gordon Highlanders just after the Household Cavarly had been routed off the field by a division of French Cuirassiers.

"How's your Norsk Mike"

Hopeless, but if I knew some and attempted to write it in a forum such as this I would appreciate any help offered in making it better.

It's a wargames forum not an "improve your foreign language skillz" forum. I'll pull English speakers up on their execrable spelling and grammar, but non-native speakers get a pass.

"It's a wargames forum not an "improve your foreign language skillz" forum."

Suit yourself. I'm happy to take help wherever I can get it. Yes, it's a wargamaes forum which is why I offered help on a wargames related word (and didn't mention his other spelling mistakes). I notice Gunfreak hasn't complained.

Don't play Nappies. But if I did, I am sure I would have killed both Napoleon and Wellington several times by now. I say this with confidence, because I have killed off William the conqueror more than once, refighting Hastings. And yes, THAT certainly does alter the outcome entirely….

1066.us

Yes, I've killed Wellington! Only once.

In the original Battleground Games 'Waterloo' for the PC, playing solo.

By using the good old 'mask Hougoumont and turn the Allies right flank' ploy.

He came over to shore up the end of the line and got deaded as a result. Pure fluke!

I was playing the Russians in a convention game once and actually made the Old Guard break and retreat.

I killed Andy Jackson at New Orleans once. Instead of marhing forward in long lines, proving easy, slow targets, the other British players and I put the force into columns, and rushed over the cotton bales. Un-historic I know, but the GM repeatedly told us we could never win, that it was pretty much a done deal for the Americans, etc., etc.

While attempting to win a bet using a time machine built by my lack-witted servant I mistakenly landed atop the unfortunate duke. Of course I had to travel through time again and correct the disaster as, by the time i returned to the present, the original bet of finding Wellingtons boots had become meaningless…

Years ago we played Waterloo and during d'Erlon's attack I managed to kill Picton, is was also about 1pm on the wall clock.

oh, and we played it on the actual aniversary day of the real battle.

R.E. Lee was not a blighter.

Killing off Braxton Bragg ought to win you entrance into the Confederate Hall of Fame. Gawd only knows that a few of his contemporaries contemplated doing just that.

I killed Wellington and every general officer and most of the Allied Anglo army at Waterloo playing Battleground Waterloo on the PC. All of this before the Prussians arrived, and when they did and saw the the line of guns and French disisions on the ridge west of Placenoit, They stopped in their tracks.
I did it by charging the ridge, moving my guns ahead quickly, using combined arms, cav backed by arty to force then destroy squares, by-passing Hougomont (came back later to kill them) and releasing/unleashing the Guard very early. The Prussians did not know that I completely used up my arty ammo (and the game had no mechanism for captured ammo, which there surely was plenty of).
The real difference was that I used the nice weather option so there was no time delay, and no mud to slow down the assault or suck up bouncing cannon balls.
It was a very long game – 50 plus turns. But what a blast.

I think I could kill Wellington quite easily.

I'd have to be playing the British though and it would be down to my poor skill rather than anything else.

I managed to kill Wellington playing AHGCs 'War & Peace', he died in Spain though.

In our last Waterloo minis game, Wellington and his staff were pretty well the only good order British unit left just before the Prussians arrived and rolled up the French flank. Wellington then proceeded to lead some rallied light cavalry in a charge which swept the routing French to the four winds. Oh the glory….

Waterloo, no. Salamanca, yes. (And I was playing the Anglo-Portuguese-Spanish side!)

Theres been the odd irritating wargamer commanding British armies I've wanted to kill. Or is that different?

I don't kill off many generals, but have managed to get Jackson and Johnson killed off in our ACW campaign – most of the generals killed off have been Rebs, that leading from the front thing noted by Cold Steel

"Massed my guns along the line and waited for them to come to me.
Think "Picketts Charge".

They did…"

The IA of that game seems terrible. If it was a human oponent he was also terrible.

Well, you know, if they have Artificial Intelligence, they probably also have Artificial Stupidity

I thought Artificial Stupidity was the precursor to Artificial Not So Dumb as to Discourage the developers of the earliest Artificial Not So Intelligent and so on.

>"R.E. Lee was not a blighter."<

"General Lee was a Christian gentleman; and he was defeated in the field by YANKEES!"

Katherine Hepburn
in "Rooster Cogburn"

Didn't kill him at Waterloo. Killed him before that in Spain, better deal if your a Francophile. The rules we were using were Empire.

In a home-grown ACW rule set, my snipers killed Longstreet.

The player controlling him had left the room and another player did the rolling on the fallen-leader table.

JW

I'd like to see the version with Napoleon and Wellington duelling it out in manly hand-to-hand. There can be only one!

I also own 'Waterloo: Napoleon's Last Battle' for my PC. Where were you "Murphy" when I asked about this link/; link If you could give me the answer to making them work it would be great. P.S. I live in Kansas City, MO.

"Generals have better things to do that take pot-shots at each other."

Christopher Plummer, as Wellington
in "Waterloo"

Would have got rid of what turned out to be one of Britain's most reactionary Prime Ministers.

Using the old "La Battle.." boardgame, I had Davout killed at Auerstaedt on the second or third turn after he came on in game. He was in a square that broke. My opponent rolled the only dice combo possible to break the square. We ended the game after about 1/2 hour of play!

No glory for the III Corps that day!

I've killed off both Napoleon and Wellington in the Battlefield Waterloo game and on the tabletop (using Empire).

The AI or "computer halfwit" is terrible in Battlefield.

Don't bother Masking Hougoumont, take it. Don't go in piecemeal go with all of Reilles corps. (Only commit 2 divisions to the farm itself – use the other two to clear the woods/orchard and try to stop the gaurds battalions from reaching the farm).

Once its taken, use it as the anchor for a combined attacking line, formed successively by Reille and Lobaus' corps to La Haie-saint. Link this line with D'erlons corps through the grand battery at its traditional position on overwatch. Once you've run the dutch belgians off "Wellingtons Ridge" by artillery fire order a general attack with Reille attacking the Guards division to the west of lion mount, Lobau to the east (can't remember whose division's there!) as well as D'erlon's Corp at the sand pit and ridge. 4 battallions of the old guard will take La Haie-saint on the way to securing the crossroads.

Utilise the rest of the old and middle Guard as a tactical reserve.

Divert the young guard with 2 batteries and 2 light cavalry regiments to the high ground east of plancenoit in preparation for the arrival of Blucher.

Once you've taken the ridge of Mont St-Jean your artillery will decimate the Allied battalions sheltering in its lea. Jerome's Division can then be sent off to deal with the Dutch/Belgian forces to the west (add multiple detachements of Legere to support) with some heavy and light cavalry.

D'erlon's corp is more than sufficient to take the ridge but needs to be supported by its foot artillery – as well as D'Hautpouls Cavalry and horse artillery to deal with the Allied Cavalry threat once the ridge is attained.

The Allied army will be utterly defeated by the time Bluchers Corps' start to make an appearance. As Divisions become available (their Allied opponents are combat ineffective) re-direct them to support the Young Guards flank defence. (once this is secure you may take the offensive against Blucher – be warned this will be infantry work, you will probably be out of artillery ammo and night will be falling).

I really must play this attack against myself rather than a "dumb" AI. I wonder if I can defend it. mmmmm. I'll try this week and let you know.

Using the board game Frederick the Great, playing the Prussians I got Frederick killed. More than once. In fact, it's easy.

Refighting Aspern, I managed to run down Napoleon and fatally wound him with an 'All out attack' using Austrian Grenadiers (Napoleon's Battles rules).

As for the Duke, I nearly always play the Brits when they are on the table so NO to the original posted question.

In one version of Waterloo played with Napoleon's Battles, Wellington got to pull a General Custer with all of his remaining army in a circle on a hilltop, surrounded by masses of French infantry, cavalry, and artillery. Ney might as well have ridden in to count coup.

The Prussians arrived to find the Old Guard and a wall of artillery lined up to face them, saw Wellington and Picton, back to back, with sabres and pistols in hand, and just walked away again.

What we learned from that game was to not weight our experienced, aggressive players on one side.

Nope never have but did get Napoleon laid up for almost a year recovering from wounds he received in Austria in 1805 in a War & Peace game.

He was very close to getting himself killed which would have change the whole context of the game.

On the table I almost captured the Tzar of Russia but due to my cavalry being disrupted they just could not finish the job and were forced to retreat.

The Tzar also retreated but he was taking his whole army with him since they once again got their asses handed to them.

Hmm…..yes, well the reverse.

A long long time ago before the age of 15mm, 6mm and computers, etc. a few friends and I decided to fight
Waterloo using our collection of 25mm figures. We spent
a long, long time writing up the O/B's by hand, sorting
figures and putting up the terrain. Finally the big day
arrived, the table was packed with figures and the room
with players. I was Wellington. The French decided to
avoid Hougomont etc. and start the game with a bang by
pushing forward the heavy cavalry. Once in range I fired
my artillery with a roll of "box cars" (12). Besides
causing casualties this also killed the senior commander.
The rules we were playing at the time forced a command to
halt if their commander was killed and they could only be
started again by the next senior commander. This caused a
lot of concern in the French camp and numerous huddles.
Finally Napoleon started to move and he took command of
the cavalry (he was the next senior commander) and they started to gallop forward again with shouts of "viva la Napoleon" from the French players. Glenn calmly picked up his dice for his next artillery shot "box cars". Napoleon was dead, end of game. We played out a few other moves just because we had nothing else to do, but the game was over.

So I killed Napoleon and the game and it felt wonderfull.
A couple of days ago I also killed Wolfe, felt great as
well but didn't kill the game, damn those new rules.