"Generic 28mm Plastic Powered Armour Suit!" Topic

For those of us who love the idea of a one-man nuke-packin' armour-plated catastrophe in motion:

link

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Pics pics pics!!!!

:)

28,

I'll post pics on my personal blog over the weekend to drive this process forward, as well as concept sketchwork of my modular starship design and artwork for the historical nuts like myself interested i the Ming Chinese cavalry…

In the immortal words of a contemporary pop-culture icon… Huh! Huh! Huh! This'll be cooool! Huh! Huh! Huh!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Sounds cool. I'd be interested after looking at some pics!

For those of us curious, where is Leland's personal blog located, if you don't mind my asking?

Tim

This sounds great, and it has me wondering if the same couldn't be done for a "build your own" mecha sprue.

Sigh, I'm in…pre-pictures…for 5.

BWP, don't show my trust to be mis-placed…

Gracias,

Glenn

Y'know, man, your descriptions are kickin'… but without pics of greens, at least, I will not unleash the credit card.

Renders are good, but insufficient. The title of this page is not "The 3D Renders page." Show me some greens, and perhaps I can be persuaded to part with some.

Green, that is.

From what I've seen from Wargames Factory so far…I'll pass on this one.

It's a shame because the concept is sound but I bet these guys can ruin it.

I'd kill for some well-sculpted, versatile ST style power armor in 28mm. Show me some pics and I'll put my money where my mouth is I'm sure.

Here's the URL for my blog:

Personal blog: link

I am now reaching for my sketchpad, and going after all my old sci-fi paperbacks including SST…

And remember people, this is all your fault!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

So far the best PA is in 6mm. Now if the owners of the IP would scale it up to 15mm or even 25mm then I'd be there with my cash.

But even it has aspects I'd modify.

Everyone's image is slightly different because we interpet from the written word subconsciously.

Gracias,

Glenn

Scotia's Combat Powered Armor Commander, Trooper, and Heavy Weapon.

SFI008

Combat Powered trooper(1)

£0.30 GBP

SFI009

Combat Powered Commander(1)

£0.30 GBP

SFI0010

Combat Powered Hvy Wpn(1)

£0.30 GBP

Not the Powered armor Troopers…

SFI006

Power armoured troopers(25)

£2.00 GBP

SFI007

Rangers in combat envirosuit(25)

£2.00 GBP

"Everyone's image is slightly different because we interpet from the written word subconsciously."

Don't get me started, Glenn (I hold a degree in Psychology – I can *prove* I'm insane)!

I for one will welcome feedback as I post developmental sketches on the Liberty & Union League forum.

Now where did I put that dratted pencil sharpener?

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

I tried telling Security I was certainly "certifiable" since I adopted two kids in my early 40's for a second round of abuse as a parent but they gave me the job anyway. Being crazy is no longer an abberation (or however it's spelled.)

"…I for one will welcome feedback as I post developmental sketches on the Liberty & Union League forum…"

My boss said that once and has regretted it ever since…

Let us know when you post them, please.

Gracias,

Glenn

Looking at that link, there's a fairly concrete design idea behind it – I'm not sure if "generic" is the right word.

Also, I might have been interested, if you hadn't felt the need to insult my taste in SF (for that matter, last time I checked, most Space Marines don't bear much resemblance to medieval knights, and in fact, Terminator suits fit the "hydrocephalic gorilla" look pretty well).

"Looking at that link, there's a fairly concrete design idea behind it – I'm not sure if "generic" is the right word."

No problemo. Since they're not going to be affiliated with a specific game system, in that sense they're generic IMHO, but that's just me… that I chose to draw extensive inspiration from Heinlein's classic literary description of that particular piece of hardware, well, consider it my own tiny tribute to the man and his vision.

"Also, I might have been interested, if you hadn't felt the need to insult my taste in SF (for that matter, last time I checked, most Space Marines don't bear much resemblance to medieval knights, and in fact, Terminator suits fit the "hydrocephalic gorilla" look pretty well)."

LOL!!! Well, back in the day when WH40K Rogue Trader was just another new game on the scene, the Space Marines wore a helmet that bore a deliberate resemblance to a medieval "pig-faced" bascinet, just one more design element to tie in to the entire dark medieval mindset and flavor of the WH40K story line. This led gamers to coin such terms of endearment as "Space Wombles" and "Beakies" (among others) by those not taken with the genre of space *fantasy.*

On a side note, did you know that the term "space marines" dates back to the pulp fiction of the 1930s? It's a generic term that has recurred time and again throughout science fiction literature since.

For my part, I'm Old School, having been involved with the larger miniature wargames hobby since first playing STARGUARD! in 1976, having already read Heinlein's classic Starship Troopers *novel* several times during high school back in the early 70s, along with numerous other works of Poul Anderson, Keith Laumer, and others, so my mind's eye view of just what a futuristic suit of powered exo-armour would look like, how it might function, what ordinance it would pack, et al is rather different than the sort of superstitious-civilization-in-decline variety presented by WH40KRT.

Then again isn't that the whole point of the entire miniature wargames hobby – especially where *science fiction* is concerned? Your appreciation of the Terminator suits is all well and good; more power to you (excuse the pun). My tastes are quite different, but I don not expect others to share them, and I don't take offense when others point out the limitations of science fiction with real science for example, so I am more than a little baffled that you've got your knickers in a twist over my proposal description explaining where Im drawing inspiration from – or not!

BTW, Terminator suits are (A) expensive models to say the least, and (B) lumber around with a limited armaments package, and (C) are not designed nor equipped to move "on the bounce," and individually do not pack the firepower of a modern day tank platoon, so you'll just have to pardon me for having the audacity for exercising my own creative freedom here, and proposing this little project for the Liberty & Union League.

Bottom line, Mr. Paul, is that this project quite frankly isn't aimed at fans of WH40K, but at an entirely different audience with an arguably broader range of imagination who appreciate the vision of Robert A. Heinlein and other science fiction writers of his generation, so to be perfectly honest, your taking umbrage comes off just a bit odd IMHO, if not kinda silly, as no insult was intended in the proposal description, and so far, yours is the only post taking issue with it here, or on other fora.

So snap out of it, and either ignore this project, submit your own, or fire up your imagination and plot and scheme how you're going to adapt a gang of the final result into a Wrath-of-The-Emperor-deliverin' bunch of chapter-specific Terminator suited heretic-slaughterin' hombres to strike terror into the black hearts of scum-suckin' aliens and heretics alike that dare to threaten humankind!

Cheers!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Now that I go back and re-read your proposal, it's more tongue-in-cheek than I'd first taken it to be, and I apologise. I've seen more than a few reviews/descriptions of mini ranges that basically boil down to "GW are crap, and my minis aren't"

As to the differences in equipment between a Terminator squad and an MI unit, well, it depends what you're using them as. The Terminator minis have those vents on the back, that could certainly be justified as jump jets, and who's to say the back-mounted rocket launcher doesn't contain a dozen medium-yield antimatter warheads?

Bottom line, Mr. Paul, is that this project quite frankly isn't aimed at fans of WH40K, but at an entirely different audience with an arguably broader range of imagination who appreciate the vision of Robert A. Heinlein and other science fiction writers of his generation,

Damn. I almost fit that description. Apart from finding what little Heinlein I've read to be rather tedious. I'll grant you that Starship Troopers is more gameable than Childhood's End or Foundation. Having said that, there's some good material in Asimov's Lucky Starr series.

Another thing that occurs to me is there's really no consensus as to what 'Generic' SF is. You say "Fantasy" to people, and most of them think of Tolkienesque elves, dwarves and orcs in the middle ages. There's no such obvious parallel in SF.

"Now that I go back and re-read your proposal, it's more tongue-in-cheek than I'd first taken it to be, and I apologise. I've seen more than a few reviews/descriptions of mini ranges that basically boil down to "GW are crap, and my minis aren't"

As if an old hand like me hasn't seen such reviews – LOL!! Well, GW is… *dubious* IMHO, but that's *IMHO,* and I still play STARGUARD after 31 years, so go figure…

"As to the differences in equipment between a Terminator squad and an MI unit, well, it depends what you're using them as. The Terminator minis have those vents on the back, that could certainly be justified as jump jets, and who's to say the back-mounted rocket launcher doesn't contain a dozen medium-yield antimatter warheads?"

Terminator? Stormbolter and powerfist/chainfist. After being teleported in, gets around by *walking* on the battlefield…

Mobile Infantry "cap trooper?" Hand flamer, power suit servos multiply wearer's strength to such a degree that an MI can make *salad* out of an Archnid warrior bug in hand-to-hand combat, Y-rack bomb thrower, assorted grenades and demolition bombs, magazine fed missile launcher with tactical nuclear capability, dedicated jump jets to increase suit-only powered jumps…

"Damn. I almost fit that description."

Then let that be a lesson to ye!

" Apart from finding what little Heinlein I've read to be rather tedious."

Well, he *was* a product of American public education in the 1930s…

" I'll grant you that Starship Troopers is more gameable than Childhood's End or Foundation. Having said that, there's some good material in Asimov's Lucky Starr series."

Well then, what's stopping you, mate?! Submit yer own freakin' proposal to the Liberty & Union League!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

"Another thing that occurs to me is there's really no consensus as to what 'Generic' SF is. You say "Fantasy" to people, and most of them think of Tolkienesque elves, dwarves and orcs in the middle ages. There's no such obvious parallel in SF."

Think "space opera" and you get the idea…. just go to a *science fiction fan convention* (attendance is entirely at your own risk BTW!!!), and say 'space opera," and watch what happens…

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

FYI: just uploaded first run through sketch on the basic suit concept, You can view it here:

link

I worked strictly from memory here, and tried to incorporate certain design elements described in Heinlein's novel.

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Now, to add more fuel to the fire, thats nothing like how I imagined Mobile Infantry suits. I always pictured them as looking like a cross between Mongoose's suits (Cougar, I think. The ones that look like Master Chief 2.0) and the APU's from Matrix: Revolutions. I think its because I find it hard to visualise something that small carrying all the firepower.

One small bug I had with SST (otherwise a great read) was the MI's lack of a rifle or equivalent. Although there is dubious evidence* for a laser being fitted to the suits, he mentions that a rifle is useless on the modern battlefield and that the MI don't have them. This always sounded foolish to me. What do you use against infantry who are out of range of your flamer and you don't want to plaster with bombs (like spread out infantry). As is, the MI make nice strategic bombers but lack a real Anti-Personnel weapon. Seems it'd be simpler to fit each suit with a machine gun and a few hundred rounds of ammo rather than having to throw explosives everywhere. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

*In SST, when discussing Bug warriors, Heinlein says you can 'burn' X legs off them and they keep fighting etc. Seems you'd have a hard job cutting someone's leg off with a flamer, and in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress he uses the word 'burn' to mean 'shoot with a laser' (Manny 'burns' 8 Peace Dragoons). As I said, dubious evidence.

BWP, I wasn't thinking so much of what Terminators are in-setting, but what the miniatures could be used as. They're closer to the SST concept (IMO) than many designs I've seen.

As for "think Space Opera", I'm afraid that doesn't help me any. As well as including Heinlein or Asimov's aforementioned space adventure series, there's Alastair Reynolds' Revelation Space setting, with weapons that not only kill you, but erases you from recent history entirely, or Iain M. Banks' Culture, which can manufacture a handgun that shoots down starships and a suit of semi-sentient armour that could probably shrug off everything the MI can dish out short of a nuke, and still fits in a taxi. None of which, sadly, make for a good miniatures game :(

The problem, I think, is that the Middle Ages and European Mythology is pretty fixed; no-one's going to come along and discover something entirely new that needs to be wedged into the 'canon'. With SF, Since the genre became popular, we've had 80 years of scientific advances, many of which showed that previous SF concepts were utter hogwash (Asimov's Lucky Starr series had underwater cities on Venus). Heck, Edwin Hubble only discovered the universe ten years before E.E. Smith started his Lensmen series.

Were,

well, I *did* say I wanted feedback! LOL!

The helmet shape is following the whole "hydrocephalic gorilla" description in its general shape, along with other ergonomic hints dropped by Heinlein in his novel. Note the belt full of bombs and the vital signs monitor.

And you're right about the lack of a rifle issue; Heinlein *was* a *Navy* man after all!

Your point about "burning" is well taken; I have been leaning towards the idea that the "hand flamer" isn't so much a flame weapon as perhaps more of a fusion plasma type of weapon, something that handles the anti-personnel work in conjunction with the MI's superior mobility, which I suspect may have been why Heinlein left conventional rifles out of the MI picture.

Heinlein was writing in 1959, so his take on technology IMHO reflects this (as does the work of other authors writing in their own times). The whole idea of "burnin' off x number of legs" may have been prose meant to reflect the resilience of Bug warriors rather than a testament to a lack of efficiency of MI weaponry when used *competently.*

And again, on this initial sketch, I haven't even gotten to the missile launcher and the *backpack* yet…

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

"The problem, I think, is that the Middle Ages and European Mythology is pretty fixed; no-one's going to come along and discover something entirely new that needs to be wedged into the 'canon'."

No but some have rattled the Eurocentric cage now and again, such as the *Chung Kuo* series…

" With SF, Since the genre became popular, we've had 80 years of scientific advances, many of which showed that previous SF concepts were utter hogwash (Asimov's Lucky Starr series had underwater cities on Venus). Heck, Edwin Hubble only discovered the universe ten years before E.E. Smith started his Lensmen series."

LOL!!! Ain't THAT the truth! Even so, we've had all sorts of things which have come true, ironically enough, from a certain television show of the 1960s that shall remain nameless… how's your cell phone service holdin' up?

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

First quibble: More Bubble headed helmet. More Hydrocephalic and more surface for the HUDs inside the helmet.

Flamer – I see that as more plasma (not unlike the plasma gun in Stargaurd) with selector switch settings using force field shaping to create a narrow beam to cut through building walls, a wide spray for anti-personnel close in work (don't forget there was a comment, IIRC, about 400 yard spacing between troopers as akin to shoulder to shoulder.) No reason why it can't also be pulse/burst to fill in the "rifle" role. Typical Navy oversight.

Last is a joke, I have my father's (USCG) Bluejackets manual and a lot of stuff deals with landing party type instruction.

Gracias,

Glenn

Glenn,

I reached much the same conclusions about the hand flamer upon reflection. I can see how a bunch of MI would dub such a weapon a "hand flamer" referring to the visual spectacle of the weapon's pyrotechnics…

This sketch is just the first pass through; I will tweak the design as I go along based upon feedback from fellow madmen like yourself…

I have my Dad's old training manuals from the USMC as well; all dedicated to heavy artillery and an operator's manual for the 155mm M1917/M1920 (Modernized) tractor-drawn GPF gun (French-supplied to the AEF in 1918!). It's a fascinating read, actually…

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Should the weapon in the hand of the MI as sketched look more "Bull Pup stock Rifle" or "Carbine" like? IIRC (once again a book goes wandering when my back is turned, why can't they take the junk books – Grrr!) it sounded more then a mega-pistol in the paragraphs in the book but I am depending on "memory" here…

Gracias,

Glenn

"…I can see how a bunch of MI would dub such a weapon a "hand flamer" referring to the visual spectacle of the weapon's pyrotechnic…"

Wonder what 3D video/Holo games they played as kids growing up? That thought just struck me. I wonder what D&D'ish/Fantasy and Sci-Fi games would be an older teen/YA favorite for them…

Gracias,

Glenn

BlackWidowPilot, The suit has just one problem I can see – there is definite mention in the reference of the MI being 'hunched' when in the suits, like the whole upper section and trunk, like a gorilla is larger than a human in proportion, as well as the helmet.

I would work on something resembling the SAFS armour from the MaK line; Maybe similar to the rather nice 10mm ( but work in 6mm ) suits from Conflict Miniatures.

Otherwise, the idea has merit; Keep the ideas coming.:)

Covert,

I'll be revisiting the novel in detail next week perhaps, as this week is going to be heavily devoted to my schoolwork (yes, I *am* back in school…. Mwahahaahaahaa!!!!).

I am beginning to think that I need to essentailly create a basic suit design, then a set of add-on weapon and equipment options to allow the purchaser to customize their suits to death with the contents of a single sprue. As I type this, perhaps a head option is also in order, with one or two separate helmeted head styles, and a headless variant ala SAFS/SF3D…. Hmmmm…. BWAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Oh dear, I seem to have started something . . . :)

Seriously, happy to do it – You have some pretty good ideas there, and ass my finances improve I'll have to look at supporting this project.

Leland, I love this look:

link

CC

Covert…. yes, you have…. MWAHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

CC,

seen it, pondered it…. doesn't grab me like some other renditions I've seen which Ill scan in on the L&UL forums….

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Great project. Love to see a "nuke-packing" miniature based on SST… but the lack of a rifle made sense in the book. If I remember correctly the MI troopers were deployed several miles apart. Only used flamers when they accidental jumped right next to something. Why shoot a rifle at something outside flamer-range when you can shoot a grenade/missle? No chance of friendly fire. They could also jump a half mile or more at a time. They really don't fit into miniature gaming when you keep them "true" to the book unless you have a BIG gaming area or are playing 6mm. So you are going to have to take some liberties…

Logain,

I think you nailed it as well as anyone has re: Heinlein's reasoning behind MI weapons fit. As for making it playable in 28mm, if the battles are of a scenario-driven sort, such as rescuing POWs/civilian hostages, snatch-n-run of a Skinny VIP, grab that Brain Bug, etc., then IMHO one could get away with quite a bit with Heinlein's MI in this scale.

And again, the intent of this model is that while it will be heavily inspired by the book, there'll be enough goodies on the sprue to allow one to make all sorts of weapon-laden permutations depending on the level of mayhem one seeks to portray.

Stay tuned…

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

If you want, I have some fairly original PA designs of my own. Most of it non-jump but can easily be adapted for that.

Some analysis of design:

1. I've worn a couple of brain buckets. In a jump suit, your most imporant viewpoint is DOWN. Helmets like the WH40K pig helmets would offer near-zero down visibility. This is probably why you never get those models in reloading or prone poses, probably because such things are virtually impossible unless they take helmets off (and explains why you get non-helmeted baldy heads).

The best helmet design in this regard is probably something like the Master Chief's helmet from Halo. The Clone Trooper helmet offers a decent narrow downward view but I keep wanting to shove it closer to my face so I can see downward.

If you are going neckless (and I believe this is closer to the SST ideal), then remember that there must be a down viewport if you favour function over form. Also, no big chest components to get in the way.

2. Waldo hands. From Heinlein's description, 50s tech, the Waldo short story, the "gorilla" description and the sheer difficulty of protecting skinny wickle fingers, I expect that the hands are not in armoured gauntlets but actually inside the forearm with articulated hands at the end. Something like you see in the Starcraft 2 trailer. Actual gloves would have to be individually manufactured for each soldier, whereas Heinlein talks about taking them out of storage and then syncing them with the wearer.

3. Big feet. If a tonne of metal comes down on a set of human footprints, then it's going to sink and get stuck in mud. A reasonable exaggeration of the footprint is a good idea. A "big toe" would also help for landing in uneven terrain.

4. Possible other weapons:
Smart mini-missiles for suit-to-suit combat. Almost every weapon in the book was "smart."
Heavy beam weapon for suit-to-suit combat (Heinlein mentions a "knife" beam)

Feet very important. So many robots/power suits today seem to have awful stilty feet, and just as bad legs. Some even look uselessly feminine; some Armored Core gashapons have been on heels.
The suits in Roughnecks didn't really look like it would be silly to send tanks against them at all; they just seem to have made it possible for a real soldier to engage in 40k Terminator tactics with all that armour on him, and heavy weapons, but he is now as clumsy as a tank, and at least as tall.
I do like many designs from Rifts, and there are even designs like on the book CC linked to where some suits are not PA but simply the heaviest body armour suits which are so heavy they need a propulsion system inside, due to the mass of the suit being too heavy to fight in unassisted; two that come to mind immediately are from the CS and NG in later books. However those don't look like they are even remotely capable of taking on a whole company of non-mechanised troops by themselves.
Other suggestions: Dorvack, Votoms, and the various works of Masamune Shirow (I know there's already a Guges landmate, but some more designs from Appleseed would help.)

I agree with the above. The power armour should be super stout like Mongoose's Exo-suits or like the old battletech elementals. Those old elementals were always kinda what I pictured…

Dudes,

get yer tails over to the Liberty & Union League forum on this subject! If you've artwork, by all means post it there!

I am always open to feedback, both written and visual on this project. In the end, in order to reach production, this must be a child of many parents willing to commit to buy at least a handful of sprues each.

Hence my openness to outside input and interpretations!

So C'mon, you apes!! Ya wanna live forever?!!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Hmmmmmm….:

auction

Bwahahahahaaaa!!!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Looks like your Power armored troops are neck and neck w/ my Near Future Russians! I'm not sure my boys have the gas for the long haul though. Be interesting to see.
Good luck w/ yours!

link

Uesugi-sama,

nothing wrong with more multi-use near future light infantry! After all, my powered armour dudes need lots of cannon fodder extras to slaughter…. Bwahahaahahaaaaa!!!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Xactly!

Just added more new powered armour suit and helmet concept sketches…. I told you all I was evil, but NOOOOOO!!!! None of you would believe me!! BWAAHAHAAHAAHAAAAAA!!!!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Additional concept art now posted on Liberty & Union League forum!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

This is what I think of when I think of potentially useful power armor.
picture

Cruise through here, they all have good visibility, and the pilot is more centered, they tend to lack a "head"

link

Your armor just doesn't look that feasible to me. The helmet is gonna weigh a ton, and the overall design get's a meh from me. Not trying to be mean, just honest thoughts, if I like it, I'll actually sign up for a few packs.

This design however I do like. Well with a few hundred less rivets . . .
link

The best way to design power armor is to take a figure and slap some modeling clay around it. This gives you an idea of what parts of the figure will be able to move where (or if at all if the armor is thick), which makes you keep it more "realistic" (and you'd want the person wearing the armor to feel comfortable within it, an important consideration…. ;)