"Recommendations for 28mm Persians" Topic

Dear all,

I want to buy a small Persian army (up to 80 figures) to fight against my Artizan Spartans.

Foundry is out because of the price. I know of Black Tree Design, Immortal Miniatures and Old Glory.

What would you recommend?

Thanks
Mick

Crusader have a partial range in their Rank & File units- they would be a good match sizewise.

Simon

link

Miniatures Design Studio have some coming up-not sure how big they are but I'm going to get some anyway!!

1st Corps are good but too small to go up against Artizan, I would have thought.

I would avoid Black Tree at present. Lots of horror stories of orders that never arrive etc.

There are some deals at Crusader:-

link

At the moment they are doing 3 regiments of 20 each for £50; going to be a good price if you have Euros…

Cheers, Simon

"1st Corps are good but too small to go up against Artizan, I would have thought."

Not really; depending on the pack, some are surprisingly tall.

I mix 1st Corps with Old Glory and the former Newline range. Crusader should be very good, too, but I haven;t added any yet.

Allen

Dear all,

Thank-you for the tips.

The Crusader 3 regiment deals look good and with the current currency rates very affordable. £50.00 GBP is currently only SFr 85 compared to about SFr 130 a year ago!

Miniature Design's range looks a bit limited at the moment.

@Colin
I have a lot of experience with Black-Tree. I am still waiting for my September order to be completed but John assures me that it is now on its way.

Quick Question

Why do so many Persian figures have rectangular shields?

I thought they should have the oval shape with cut outs at either side. Are my books too old?

Regards
Mick

I love thoses shields -my army will be including some of these old school figs- probably Minifigs.

Hello, I'll answer your question. The 'violin' shaped shields are usually associated with an earlier period, before the Persian army is thought to have adopted the Median style of dress for war, this was before the Persian invasion of Greece. They can be seen in the hands of the guards at Persepolis, who are wearing the 'Persian robe'

The large rectangular Sparra are shown being used by Persian soldiers on vase paintings dating to around the time of the Persian wars, these vases were painted by contemporary artists and are some of the only reliable evidence we have to go on for Persian equipment of this period. These shields were only held by the front rank, who's main duty was to protect the archers behind them.

Later Paintings sometimes show Persians using smaller shields, but these seem to be used by lighter equipped troops (around 450bc Greek art stops showing Persians wearing any body armour, but equipped with bow and shield). This new formation and equipment was probably the Persians response to their archers being unable to adequately defend themselves against the Greeks in close combat.

Its quite plausible that some units were still equipped with the smaller style shield, but these would have probably been a more mobile combat oriented soldier, as the smaller shield would offer little protection to the user or the men behind him.

Steve is quite right though it is possible that the Immortals used the violin shield more widely and more than their front rank had short spears.

Check out the Montvert publication on the Achaemenid Persian Army by Duncan Head (assuming you can get it) but also do some trawling on TMP and you should get quite a bit of data.

I have found Black Tree to be very efficient and their orders and email advice very prompt.

Cheers

Garry

Dear Steve and Mithridates,

Thank-you for the explanations about the shields – rectangular Spara it is then.

Steve – how is the plastic Persians project going. Do you have an idea of when you may be ready to launch them. I am very tempted to wait for them to come out.

Regards
Mick

Hi Mick, Glad to be of help.
I am aiming to launch the Plastic Persians before the summer (Plastic tooling usualy takes about 3-4 months to complete). Nothing is set in stone yet, Moving house and Christmas has got in the way a bit!
I'll have some proper updates on them and the Hoplites in the new year.

All the best
Steve

Does anybody know if Immortal's plastics are progressing.
Steve said "before the summer" and summer is now well past.
I have seen the 3 ups of the Hoplites on the website but no information about the Persians.

Mick

I use O.G. and Crusaderto fill out my other units. My Persians are mostly Foundry when they WERE $ 1.00 USD dollar! Cheers Mike Adams

Have a look at Vendel Miniatures

vendelminiatures.co.uk

Roland

It's not much help, but Steve Saleh did a did a single, lovely Persian miniature for Gorgon.

link

I wonder if he'll ever follow up with a range?

Simon

The Vendel range looks very complete – both for Macedoneans and also for Persians.
How do they match up with Crusader or A&A?

(I think that the Crusader or A&A are compatible but would appreciate a second opinion)

Could I use Vendel cavalry and chariots with Crusader infantry?

Mick

Mick, Crusader & A&A are a match same sculper. IMHO Vendelis a little bigger but will fit well with Crusader & A&A ranges. Mike Adams

Thanks – that is very good

I have bought a few packs of Vendel Persians and A&A Macedonians to compare with my existing Crusader and Black Tree stuff.

Mick

I have also bought some figures from Miniatures Design Studio. I wil do some comparison shots when they all arrive.
Mick

Steve from Immortal wrote in another thread.
"The plastic hoplites are finished and waiting to go off to tooling. Persians will be next year."

Vendel win top marks for service. I ordered on Saturday night and the goods arrived in Switzerland on Thursday = international delivery in 4 working days.

By contrast, I ordered Persians from Black Tree 42 days ago and received only 25% of them so far.

Mick

Miniature Design Studios are also fast – they arrived today = 5 days.
I also received the Gorgon Persian – nicest figure so far.

He is nice, isn't he… a little lonely, though. Hopefully they will do a full range, some day.

Simon

Just to resurrect this post.

Mick how do the MDS figures compare to the others?

I've just ordered some Foundry Macedonians (in the sale I hasten to add) and am looking for some Persian opponents. I'd buy Foundry but the price is a bit steep. MDS look like a good cheap option for the bulk of the infanry. Otherwise I'll probably go down the Crusader route.

Of course like Simon says if Gorgon did Persians…..

I would judge (from my various rank and file purchases) that the Crusaders would be the best match for Foundry, height and heft-wise. Crusader do a useful multi-regiment deal.

Mind you, you'll need to find suitable cavalry; challenging…

Simon

Crusader may be the way to go for the infantry. I keep forgetting them as they are shown under the Rank and File range and you have to search for them.

Cavalry may have to be Foundry!

I would go with O.G. cav. If you live in the states and have a ARMY CARD, each pack is 40% off! Vendel are also good. Mike Adams

Dear Sir Sidney,

I have 48 Crusader, 16 Vendel, 16 MDS, 1 Gorgon and 16 BTD (though only 4 received)

First – some comments on size.

Crusader and MDS are similar in size and bulk. Black Tree and Gorgon are slightly taller but with similar proportions. Vendel are much bulkier than the others. I suspect that Foundry are the same size as Crusader but simply much more expensive. I have not got any Immortal figures but I think they could be used with Crusader and MDS.

Next – comments on style and historical accuracy.

Gorgon is the nicest sculpt but he is lonely at the moment. I believe that some friends are planned in the future.
The Vendel range is very accurate as far as I can tell. They also have the most complete range including cavalry, chariots etc, etc.
Immortal have a good range that is being added to regularly. These are historically accurate as far as I can tell.

Crusader and MDS are accurate but both are limited to a few infantry sculpts. However, as they can be mixed, this can give you some variety. Neither of them have cavalry or chariots.
BTD are a much older range and the shields are in my opinion wrong. I will replace the shields. I am also still waiting for 75% of my order.

Colours
These pictures may interest you.
link
especially this one
link
Regards
Mick

I will do some comparison shots at the weekend.
Mick

Mick

Thanks very much for the reply. I've got quite a lot of Crusader Punic wars stuff so wanted to keep to that size so it's good to know the MDS figures are a similar size and very cheap in bulk.

This thread had a few pics of Immortal/Crusader/Gorgon and Foundry figures so I think I'll be OK with Foundry/Crusader/Gorgon and MDS!
TMP link

I think Vendel are a bit bigger still so may be pushing it too far but I'll check them out at a show sometime.

The colours of the Persian costumes are one of the reasons I want to collect some, I may need sunglasses to paint them though!

Legion 1950 just checked Ancientbattles.com and Mr Jonas shows some OG Persian cavalry that I'll investigate. I find OG can be hit or miss so I always try and check painted samples online.

Thanks for the replies.

This is my mixed heavy cavalry unit made up of Old glory and Newline, and Foundry figures, with some models riding Vendel horses:

link

The key change is the Old Glory have had the unconvincing javelin bundles removed and replaced by stouter short spears. The spears here are a bit thick, and I could add a second one to the left hands… something I haven't gotten to yet. The nicest thing about these is that they do not have bow cases so they go with the trend of later heavy cavalry not being armed with bows. The Old Glory have the pointy helmets and have half barded horses. Generally the Old Glory Persians look bad unpainted, and better when done.
Some are horrid, such as the unarmored cavalry. The Old Glory character chariot packs are not a good bargain for them. The scythed chariots are a good deal, but only have one crewman, which could be correct or not… but is simple to rectify if one wants two crew.

Some of my nicest unpainted Persians are by Newline Designs. The spara bearers are ok, and their archers are good too, these all fit with Foundry and Crusader.

Vendel figures are very robust with thick heads and hands, here they are compared to BattleStandard's chunky figures with giant horses, and a Newline:

link

JJ

8 more Black Tree figures arrived today. Despite the small violin shields and the slow service, I have to say that the sculpts are very nice. Every sculpt is different. They have interesting poses to liven up the rather boring ranks from the other manufacturers.

By the way – I emailed BTD and they are changing the outstanding part of my order to some other Persian packs that are in stock.
Mick

Jeff just seen your post, thanks for the advice and the links, I'll try and get somewhere near your painting standards on my Persians!

I'd check Newline but I understand they sold or dropped their Achaemenid Persians. I seem to remember someone said another company bought some of their ranges but haven't produced any. Maybe I'll give them a ring to check.

Dave

Dave,

SHQ have the Newline 28s:

link

Simon

The rest of the Black Tree figures arrived today.

My original plan for an 80 figure army is ancient history. So far there are 105 infantry without command and cavalry. I have a feeling this will end up more like a 200 figure force.
Mick

Simon

ref Newline thanks I'll look at them.

Mick you can never have too many figures!

Dave

Wargames Factory Plastic Persians are due soon

link

Regards

Mick

Mick, it is going to be a year for Persianss, Gorgon is also releasing there line of foot and cav!!! Check the website!! Also Immortal too!!!

The greens for the Gorgon cavalry look excellent. Presumably they will be doing a full Persian range, which I'll use with my Foundry Saleh Persians.

cheers, Simon

Hi Mike!

Simon, you were able to get those Saleh Persians? You are a lucky man! I am also waiting for Gorgon Persians!! Cheers Mike

Hi Mike, yes I have 4 or 5 blisters of them. They arepretty nice but I expect the Gorgons will be better. What i reallly hope to see is Persians on armoured horses.

Simon

Simon, wait a little while longer I think Gorgon will have some? I hope. Mike Adams

I am pleased to show these from WF. I proposed them in the WF League two years ago. Price will be about US$20 for 36. They can build into archers, spearmen and simple command.
link

Not quite as nice as Gorgon but a good way to create those vast levy hordes. Or better still – get 10,000 of them to fight 300 Gorgon Spartans.
Mick

I do have to say the Gorgon figures are absolutely beautiful!

Tony

Tony Reidy
Wargames Factory
wargamesfactory.com

Plastic Persian Cavalry are in tooling

link

Mick

Picture of new Wargames Factory Persians and Persian Cavalry from Facebook. Note says Persian Cavalry, Persian Infantry and an Orc. Release date February 2011 for all three.
link

I wouldn't count on those coming out in February, just at the moment, given the current state of WF.

-A.

That chap holding the reins with his teeth would be novel – but what have done with the reins by the way on Facebook?