"Lost world rules/game systems?" Topic

For those of you who play "lost world" rules or games systems, which one is the most widely used, and what are the games like? Thanks.

I've contacted the troops at three Yahoo Groups:

link
link
link

Hope they provide you some valuable feedback.

CC
TMP link

I guess the three most popular, in a not too overcrowded genre, would be Saurian Safari, Tusk and Tooth and Claw.

Others you might want to take a look at would be Dinomight, Sticks and Stones and the rules produced by Steve Barber, although I can't remember what they,re called.

There are also a few free games out there which are definately worth hunting down.

It really depends what you're after, whether you want 28mm skirmish type dinosaur hunting games, 15mm cavemen hunting mammoths or even 10mm dinosaurs hunting each other?

Personally, I like Saurian Safari.

Why not sign up at the yahoo groups Dan has suggested and check out the files for more information. You,d be very welcome over at Lost World Safari :O)

As far as miniature games, boggler has got it covered.

However, there are a few roleplaying supplements I would recommend, if for nothing more than to give you ideas:

1) Lands of Mystery by Aaron Allston. This is the best lost world RPG supplement out there, full of information about how to put together a lost world campaign. The drawback: It has been out of print for sometime and is hard to find. I got my copy through Ebay.

2) Lands out of Time by "Lizard." This is a Gurps supplement for playing lost world games. If you purchase it, I recommend also picking up GURPS Dinosaurs. Both are available for download on e23.

e23.sjgames.com

3) The Savage Empire manual and cluebook. The Savage Empire was actually a computer roleplaying game, but it came with fantastic documentation. Consider it a ready-made lost world setting. Both the manual and cluebook are full of juicy tidbits and ideas. Both can be downloaded at Replacementdocs (the manual is titled "Ultimate Adventures" and is designed like a 1930s pulp magazine.

link

I play 28mm and use Tusk, Tooth and Claw and the .45Adventure, Thrilling Expeditions:Valley of the Thunder Lizard book!

Ok, well, what kind of models would gamers like to see for this in 15mm? I wonder if this genre can compete with zombies for popularity.

"what kind of models would gamers like to see for this in 15mm?"

I hope you're ready for my answer! Don't get scared now, but 15mm has a lot of catching up to do in this genre and you are the perfect person to do that.

Ok. Maybe this could start a list . . .

1) 2 packs of Victorian explorers (men and women) in tropical/desert attire
2) 2 packs of Victorian explorers (men and women) in winter attire
3) 2 packs of c1930 explorers (men and women) in tropical/desert attire
4) 2 packs of c1930 explorers (men and women) in winter attire
5) 2 packs of cavemen (men and women) in tropical/desert attire
6) 2 packs of cavemen (men and women) in winter attire
7) 2 packs of WWI U-boat officers and crew in tropical/desert attire
8) 2 packs of WWI U-boat officers and crew in winter attire
9) 2 packs of WWII U-boat officers and crew (or Nazis) in tropical/desert attire
10) 2 packs of WWII U-boat officers and crew (or Nazis) in winter attire
11) 1 pack of Yetis, polar bears and Grizzlies
12) 1 pack of tigers, lions, leopards
13) 1 pack of apes
14) 1 pack of rhinos and African elephants
15) 1 pack of hippos and crocs
16) 1 pack of African (or Melanesian type) bearers
17) 1 pack of African (or Melanesian type) villagers
18) 2 packs of African (or Melanesian type) warriors
19) 1 pack of African (or Melanesian type) command and medicine man
20) 2 packs of apemen (apes with loincloths and basic weapons)

And then you get to the Dinosaurs and Megafauna . . .

But I'll leave that to the other posters that follow below (though I hope they ask for two poses of each).

CC
link

I've just started my 15mm Lost worlds collection – I had a 15mm Cave girl made cos I couldn't find one! I've got the great pack of Adventurers from the US Old Glory – mentioned on the board many times before.

I also have a Uboat and crew using customised figures from Flames of War done by the great painter who did these and a few extra for me for Dad's Army Flames of War – I've forgot his name but there were loads of oics on the Flames of War Internet site!

I made the U-Boat from a 1/87 Plastic kit and cut it down to waterline level.

Natives available from many sources like Peter Pig.

I use Dinos or will do when I buy em from Magister Millitum (that might be spelt wrong, sorry). Although they are 10mm I think they work great.

Also I have the big Reaper ape in 28mm for King Knong and lots of nasties from the pre painted D+D miniatures, very useful.

I use Demonworld Trollbins for Neadanthals (again probally spelt wrong, give me a break it's xmas LOL) which are in loincloths.

So it's very doable in 15mm – I do have a great collection in 28mm but I wanted to do it 15mm as at home where I play a lot I am restricted by space.

Scenery is easierly available and as for rules I've tried .45 as mentioned above but I prefer my own rules.

Anyway hope some of that helps and I hope one day to post pics on the Yahoo group I belong too.

Merry Xmas hohoho

Yep.

Most 15mm Pulp gamers have apparently had to resort to doing conversions or finding those few lucky "gems" among packs in other ranges.

TMP link

CC

If 15mm meant it would be cheaper to field Dinosaurs, then I would be very interested.

I will also be posting my free Dino hunting rules on my web site in the next few days if you want to look over those (will let you know when they are up)

15mm would certainly cut the cost of dinosaur hunting and would fit in with existing rules like Tusk and Saurian Safari, whilst encouraging new rules to be written for larger numbers of figures. One advantage would be the use of the smaller plastic dinosaur figures to create herds of sauropods, mammoths etc, something which is prohibitively expensive in 28mm. I think Magister Militum had this in mind when they created their 10mm range but these are quite expensive given their small size. Perhaps 15mm would work best in resin to keep the cost down?

I'm actually casting around a bit to see what I should make in 15mm for my Thing in the Crate label of scifi/fantasy/horror/pulp models. I have a 15mm historical set of ranges, and thought doing something in 15 for TTC would be a nice supplement. Problem is I do not have a grasp on what people play in 15mm for these types of games. 28mm I am more familiar with,

I think what I will end up doing is making a few different things, then seeing what sells best and running with that. I've already got some space monsters made and am waiting to get them, then will make perhaps a few small predatory dinosaurs, and then a few zombies or similar -- run them all up the flagpole to see who salutes them, I guess you could say!

In defense of magister militum's prices, they had to hire someone to sculpt the model, then someone else to cast it. Then each piece has a fixed cost for the metal. Consider: how many triceratops will a gamer buy? Thirty? Sixty? Or one? If you are selling one, and there are only so many people willing to buy them in the first place, how are you supposed to make your money back if you charge two quid for one?

Seriously, if you want u-boat crews and the like, don't complain about the price when someone sticks his neck out and makes them for you.

/RANT OFF

lol

Of course, there is the counter argument that for a niche product thats not going to generate a huge number of sales per item, then by pricing them high, you actually put people off leaping into it and the whole thing catching on. A new period/game like this is essentially an impulse purchase. Too high a price destroys the impulse. A self defeating strategy.

I game the genre in 28mm and I have whole herds of Brachiosaurs, Sauropods and other dinos – all plastic repainted models, none of which cost me more than a few dollars each, courtesy of ebay etc. I also have more expensive metal ones for the smaller types such as gallimimus and raptors etc.

It gets to a pretty poor state of affairs when figures produced in a smaller scale – 15mm – that should be space saving and cheaper work out more expensive than their 28mm equivelents. There is absolutely no justification for that other than profiteering.

Honestly, it would take a lot to convert me from 28mm to 15mm at this point. Everything else I already have is 28mm.

There is absolutely no justification for that other than profiteering.

The justification for it, as already explained, is recouping investment. If you are confident that you understand the position of a manufacturer and the sales/marketing plans that are involved, perhaps you can start your own line and produce, say, 15mm big game hunters with rifles, and price them as low as 15mm Flames of War German infantry which will sell in the tens of thousands, and then explain how you made your money back.

Honestly, if you can pull it off, I'd like to hear the strategy that went into it because I, as well as all other manufacturers willing to make things people want (instead of the seventieth line of Marian Romans or Napoleonics), would benefit from such an explanation.

There's no way around it. People who want items that are not popular, and that will only sell in small quantities, should expect to pay a price that reflects the cost to the producer. There's an accusation of greed here, but the real greed is in the expectation that a producer will make models and be out of pocket for them so they can be sold to you at a price that is equal to models that sell in the thousands. If that's the attitude, then frankly the gamers are going to have to keep scrounging from other lines to get what they want.

I've actually got quite a few of the MM dinosurs as they're very nice and worth the price. I was just trying to think myself into the shoes of someone who wanted to start in scales other than the obligitory 28mm.

"Seriously, if you want u-boat crews and the like, don't complain about the price when someone sticks his neck out and makes them for you."

"There's an accusation of greed here, but the real greed is in the expectation that a producer will make models and be out of pocket for them so they can be sold to you at a price that is equal to models that sell in the thousands. If that's the attitude, then frankly the gamers are going to have to keep scrounging from other lines to get what they want."

Geez. What happened here?

I answered with such hopes of getting something, anything, from that list. And maybe get others to pitch in and give Khurasan a wishlist of their own, for him to pick and choose.

Instead the thread turns into this?

Now I'm sorry I went through the trouble of thinking up and posting the list in the first place.

Plus now I'm not too sure I want to keep pursuing this at all.

CC

To get back on topic, I play 28 mm, but those plastic dinosaurs get expensive after a while. I usually play on a small surface areas, usually 2'x3', with no more than a couple dinosaur models at a time. When I can't find the creatures I'm looking for, I find images on the internet, print them out, and turn them into paper models.

I agree with the above comment that it would be easier to find plastic dinosaur figs that fit into the 15mm range. All the games mentioned above could easily be converted to that scale.

Don't forget the very fun, fast playing (and free!) "Big Game Hunt" rules from;

link

I play with 28mm, using mostly Copplestone and Foundry figures for hunters and toy dinosaurs (particularly the Schleich figures). I would love feedback from anyone that gives them a go!

Don't take it personally, CC -- nothing in my rant was aimed at you. I could have just kept quiet on the pricing issue, as after all the gripe was about some other chap's prices, not mine.

But considering I asked you fellows what you want to see, and ask that with full intention on backing that up with models, I thought it a useful exercise to give the modelmaker's side of the story on the pricing of models that won't necessarily sell in the thousands. People can take that or leave that as they wish, naturally! But really, if someone is going to continue to insist that there is no rationale for it but "profiteering," then I do think it makes perfect sense to ask him to have a go himself to expose the "greediness" of all the rest of us. Wink!

Trust me, people do not make miniature figurines to get rich -- the opposite is far more likely. (I do not include in that a certain large publicly trade corporation!)

I appreciated your list, very much so! Not sure it will fit in with what I have in mind, but it might yet! I have in fact already made one full line of models for my 15mm lost world range, well fed female pygmy cannibals who are amusing and deadly at the same time! Started a second line as well, savage humanoids of a type that will later be divulged.

The open question for me now is, what time period to root it into? That would affect how I make the humanoids from the outside world. You have u-boat crews on your list so I assume you mean some period between 1914 and 1945. I was thinking later, like today's world. Any other thoughts on this?

First post…
"For those of you who play "lost world" rules or games systems, which one is the most widely used, and what are the games like? Thanks.

Er… Did this thread get hijacked or what?

Khurasan,

Thanks for the comments above.

"The open question for me now is, what time period to root it into? That would affect how I make the humanoids from the outside world. You have u-boat crews on your list so I assume you mean some period between 1914 and 1945. I was thinking later, like today's world. Any other thoughts on this?"

If you make the outsiders "Victorians" (c 1910 – actually Edwardians), then you will get interest from both the VSF and Pulp camps, which increases the prospect of sales.

Figures of 1930s through 1950s will appeal mainly to the Pulp gamers.

Of course, there are some who use more modern figures for their Pulp adventures.

CC
Great examples here:
link
backofbeyond.de
lead-adventure.de
twfigurines.de/gallery.htm
link
agisn.de/html/pulp.html
link
link
link
link

Warrenss22, what happened was I then asked a followup question about what models lost world gamers might like to see in 15mm.

Most of my gaming in this genre is 6mm Tusk (available from Irregular). I scratchbuild and convert a lot for the types that are not available.

Sulpey, and cheap plastic dino toys have become great friends of mine.

I am thinking about expanding into 15mm as well. One great thing is tat many dinosaurs seem to have come in "small, medium and large" versions of what look like much the same beast. This allows the use of SML toys etc.

Personally I would love to see a full range of Ice Age megafauna in 15mm. I'm not holding my breath as I doubt the demand is there to support production at any reasonable price point.

2nd to that would be Adventurer/Explorer figures at any time period from ca1840-ca1940. That should cover most of the VSF/Pulp period. Not just tropical, but Arctic and Temperate dress figures as well. And a couple of film crews (gotta have film crews!), heroines in distress, etc. The classic set pieces of the genre.

I too game this genre is 15mm and yes, it is vastly (and sadly) unsupported in relation to 25/28mm. Whats really missing I think is the character and personality fig ranges – the bearers, natives etc as available mostly as part of other ranges (and correctly pointed out above). However, to my knowledge only Brigade and Irregular currently make adventurers in 15mm.

Bits and bobs from other ranges can make up the rest. Thatt said, CC's list above looks like a great start!

BTW Ive just found some Terror Birds in 15mm as part of a fantasy range:
link

Yours in a white wine sauce!
Tas

This is an interesting site:

link

Cool illustrations of ape-men:

picture
picture
picture
picture
picture
link

Hope this inspires some of you to more sculpting and gaming.

CC