"Is it lawful acording to european union law?" Topic

Wargames Foundry are selling their blisters at a price of 10.75 GBP for their UK customers, (acording to current exchange rates it is around 11.5 Euros). But if you live in the Euro Zone (as me, that I live in Spain) they charge you 17.15 Euros. That is about a 50% more than what they charge a customer in the UK.

My question is:

Acording to European Union Laws, isnīt it a discrimination of customers within the Union?. The UK customer gets a better treatment with no reason for it. The nationals of the rest of the states members of the Union are discriminated.

Would it be lawful in the USA to charge a diferent price to people who live in Alabama or in Texas?.

I don't really see why you can't charge people whatever the hell you want as long as it is clearly labeled, but I'd bet there are laws against it.

"Acording to European Union Laws, isnīt it a discrimination of customers within the Union?"

No.

Believe me, if it were, Wargames Foundry would be nothing compared to all the cars, food, drink and electricity suddenly being a lot cheaper in the UK -- like they are on the mainland. And the half of mainland Europe's multi-nationals to whom captive British consumers represent their profit margin would be bankrupted.

Rip-off Britain is only possible due to the special way in which the EU is funded..

This isnt Alabama and Texas though and the UK doesn't have the euro as currency,plus a myriad of other factors will influence the final price in any region.

Doesn't the US have different sales taxes in different states too?

How much is VAT in Spain? Are there other taxes to account for? All sorts of reasons why things are different prices in different countries.

(Despite the best efforts of the eurocrats in Brussels, the EU is still made up of seperate countries with their own tax laws etc.)

(Vote 'No' again Ireland – show them what democracy means!)

Actually sometimes you find smaller taxing regions in the US than states. Some counties and individual cities have special sales taxes.

In the US we have rules about profiteering, but other than emergencies, you can charge whatever you want as long as it is not a way to achieve discrimination against a suspect class: race, religion, age, gender, and in some states sexual orientation.

Simple answer…

Dont buy from them.

I actually spoke to them regarding this matter and was told they will charge what they like and had already had a visit from Trading Standards over such complaints and they are not breaking any law.

In short, they are happy to rip-off those from outside the UK.

Hence why our club dont buy Wargames Foundry figures… Silly really as we would have bought loads for several projects we wanted to do.

They lost sales to simple greed and arrogance.

Stupid way to encourage customers and build loyalty if you ask me. Dont know any others who do it.

Correct in the US sales tax is a local issue, and can very from State to State.

It would be illegal to charge people standing in your store a different price (not tax if done via mail for instance) simply becasue they are from a different state.

You are not dealing with that here. They are setting price based on currency.

To the best of my knowledge EU countries can set prices based on Currency.

For example we have books with dual pricing printed on the cover because the same book or periodical is diustributed in both countries (US dollar prices and Canadian Dollar prices). The Canadian price is almost always higher (regardless of the exchange rate). You have to pay with the currency of the country in which you buy it. Legal tender of that nation.

To the best of my knowledge you have a similar situation here. The company has set their prices based on the currency, not nationality. I do not think there is anything illegal about it. If they said show me your passport, and I will tell you the price, then you might have a beef. In this case the merchandise is just cheaper when purchased in England based on the current exchange rate. If you go to England you would pay in pounds the English price.

I sure over the last 2 years a lot of Canadians did their book shopping in the US :)

There are laws against imposing additional charges on items simply because they are crossing national boundaries within the EU. Although these laws are really intended to stop import/export duties impeding the free movement of goods throughout the Union, they can have wider application to any impediment to the free movement of goods.

This is a tricky one, I'm honestly not sure what the legal position would be here (too long since I studied European law!). I think those prices were devised at a time when it probably worked out about the same, since which time the Euro has gained against the Pound.

Goods are of course sold at different prices throughout the EU, but to charge different prices (before postage) based on the location of the buyer within the EU puts the seller on very thin ice legally.

Edit: just want to add that as others have mentioned, the 'get out' here for Foundry could be that they're charging based on currency rather location. But do they offer non-UK buyers the option to pay in Pounds…?

Of course it could simply be that their website does not update for currency fluctuations?

But if that's what they are doing find a kind UK wargaming `colleague' and get them to buy and forward the stuff to you. Even with two lots of postage it's got to be less that the 50% premium they are charging sending direct. Guess at a 20 to 25% saving?

While a storefront in Alabama might charge a different price from a storefront in Texas, I have never seen internet stores charge differently based on where the product is being shipped to except for different shipping and different taxes.

I bet the difference in pricing was set when the exchange rate was much mor ein favour of the Euro and hasn't been adjusted since.

Its no different to the exchange rate debates we've seen regarding the US dollar and the Pound this year with big fluctuations each way.

You win some you lose some.

One issue with Foundry is that in a certain way they have integrated the shipping costs to the end prices of the products (though there is an additional postage charge for small orders).

So their expenses for sending a horde box to outside UK are greater than sending it inside UK. Plus the possible expenses of currency conversion (though with the plunging pound, they might have been safer actually keeping those euros as euros).

Still, not quite enough to explain the price discrepancy.

Griefbringer

I would find a friend in the UK and have the figures sent to him then to you.

………….Doug

First, two different currencies, and the makers have to factor in the risk of constantly changing exchange rates. Obviously they err on the side of caution for their pricing.

If you go to England and pay in pounds you pay the lower price.

If you order it from the US or another location that does not use Pounds as the legal currency then you pay whatever price they set in that currency or the pound equivalent if they do not set prices in that currency. While their prices may be outrageous based on the current exchange rate it is up to them to set it.

Unless some specific EU law forbids this? They are not discriminating against people technically, but against currencies and exchange rates. If they loose enough business they will adjust. Also, the prices I looked at include postage which clouds the entire issue even more.

Example
A starter Paint Set

Includes
Free Post Equivalent in Euros
Dollars 175 120.96
Pounds 85 89.95
Euros 135 135

At today's exchange rate they are going to loose EU business!

Would it be lawful in the USA to charge a diferent price to people who live in Alabama or in Texas?.

Sure. As others have said, sales tax can vary by much smaller units than states with such things as special local option taxing districts. Property taxes vary by county and school district with effective rates bewteen about 6% and less than 1% with some 39 states taxing personal property and 13 states taxing inventory. All 13 states that tax inventory use different definitions of what constitutes taxable inventory.

Variable tax rates aside, cost of business can vary wildly from others factors and folks are free to do pretty much as they wish with pricing on a geographic basis absent monolpoly type issues.

It may well be possible to pay in Ģ via Paypal although the checkout system might have a problem with it.

Well I bought recently from Foundry, I bought on the net, from outside the UK, paid in pounds using my CC, paid same price as for UK, got the free postage as well.

I think the site says choosing your location is just to get the right currency displayed.

Don't think you are forced to pay in a particular currency, so you can select UK and pay in pounds, I think all CC's allow this.

Then you just get screwed by your CC company when they do the exchange rate conversion from pounds to Euro's for you :) .

interesting Bravo, so the site does not lock up or change prices when you put in the shipping address?

Yes the CC will pay in pounds and you get a small charge for the exchange service.

If there site let's you the price in pounds with a CC and does not care about the shipping address then the problem is solved.

Fluctuating currencies might be a factor as well.

The problem is not diferent taxes in diferent states. In the EU if you buy the good in the UK you pay the taxes in the UK. So when I buy in Euros I pay the VAT in the UK, and it is absolutely forbidden ot put taxes on goods coming from another country within the EU.

So it isnīt a problem regarding different taxes in different places.

The problem is selling the same good, in the same place (Foundry Web Store), with the same taxes (UK taxes) and charging people within the EU diferent prices based on the European Currency they use: if they use GBP, cheap items; if they use Euros, a 50% more.

As the Euro is used only in part of the states of the EU, in fact, it means that you are discriminated if you live in some parts of the EU.

I know that Europeans citizens have the right to be treated in each European Country by its authorities in the same way that they treat their nationals.

But, does is this rule also for companies, or just for the public authorities?.

I don't think there is any deliberate discrimination. Foundry have just been overcautious and slow to adjust the currency rates. There was a time when their rate was reasonable. Their prime concern is to make sure that exchange rates don't hurt them in Sterling terms. Just pay in Ģ and enjoy the current bargain rate.

@Dervel
Well it didn't for me….

AFAIK there shipping charges are not based on where you are located anyway, from memory its a flat GBP11 if under GBP75 and free if over GBP75 to anywhere in the world.

Got a confirmation email from some guy there to say the order had shipped, no problems, though haven't got it yet but that was only the middle of last week.

I am not in the EuroZone, a lot further away, but I would be surprised it they have singled out EU neighbours for extra punishment but there again :)

write to your Euro-Congressman!!

The "currency fluctuations" angle might seem to explain this until you notice that Foundry has a separate price, in pounds, for "rest of the world" customers, and it is MUCH higher than the UK price.

It's a ripoff, pure and simple, and they're doing it because they can. I suggest not doing business with them, hopefully they'll go bankrupt and someone more service-minded can acquire the ranges.

Going with the Alabama and Texas thing.
It is the stores and retailers that set the price they charge. This despite the price that the company sets.
I regularly buy from one place that gives a 10% discount on a certain line. Some friends buy from another store that gives a 20% discount,
Yet another place I buy from has no discount on this line, but does on others.
They are all in different states.

Gentlemen,

Much heat, little light.

It is perfectly legal to sell at different prices to different countries within the European Union. There are several reasons for this.

Firstly, Foundry will certainly be getting a bum deal from their bank for keeping open and operating a foreign currency account. I speak as the CFO of a large European group. Just because you see an interbank rate for the GBP:Eur, that's not the rate you get from the bank.

Secondly, the banks charge you far, far more for a euro transaction than for a sterling transaction. Foundry are not a charity, they're a business. It costs them, why should you get it for free?

Thirdly, they're a UK business. For those who've had their head buried in the sand over the last few months, the euro and sterling have parted company since the summer and there is significant risk to dealing in foreign currencies. Yes, the euro is strong now as investors flee sterling but it would take only the extremely optimistic to think that the euro will remain unscathed. Even if that's wrong, there's still a risk. For Foundry to revalue their prices now would be foolhardy.

The rates you're quoting Asanblan, 0.63p to the euro is not that old. I was getting that in the summer. I am unimpressed that you feel that a UK business should cut its own throat because you have suffered from a foreign exchange market beyond Your and Foundry's control.

Mike