"Roman battlefield found in Lower Saxony" Topic

In German news for almost two weeks now. Very interesting stuff for everybody who is interested in Roman warfare. A battlefield was discovered, where very likely Germans and Romans fought during the 3rd century AD. The battlefield is located many hundred kilometers eastward of the Limes.

link

Ulenspiegel

Awesome! Thanks for putting that up

Fascinating, especially as they were able to derive the tactics used. Also the implications for changes in our understanding of history are significant.

Very interesting, indeed. Reads a bit like the opening scene of "Gladiator".

I can't wait to see what the excavations next March uncover.

Interesting. Thanks.

Reads a bit like the opening scene of "Gladiator".

I had the same thought.

Very nice article… thanks for sharing!

Cheers,
Scott

Reads a bit like the opening scene of "Gladiator".

So they did have napalm…

I don't think ballistae were often used as an offensive weapon. I would guess that they were probably mounted on carts to make them portable in this case.

Very cool and complete with Indiana Jones-type female archaeologist!

Women from Lower Saxony are not Idiana Jones-like :-)))

Never the less, until now the official state team has done a very good job, especially, when they were able to get the support of some semi-professional enthusiasts, who helped with their metal detectors a lot and who also helped to discourage the plundering of the site by other more commercially oriented guys.

Ulenspiegel

Agreed -- very cool indeed!

Great article. It seems more and more sunken ships, burial grounds and battlefields are being found all the time.

I find it interesting that no human remains were found, though.

It seems odd that the Romans would have taken their dead along or that the "barbarians" wouldn't have buried their's where they fell.

But they're early in their exploration.

JW

Acidic soil that destroyed human remains?
As you said though, there's probably more to come.

They'd all be buried in pits or cremated like as not – eg Hannibal apparently constructed great ovens to cremate the dead after Cannae

That is so cool!

Xin

Hot, you mean….

Sounds like the Romans were fighting their way home. Sounds like they didn't hang around afterwards, because you'd think they'd do a battlefield clean-up & recycle all that missile iron…

Perhaps the ballista bolts were buried in the earth on impact- they would have had a lot of velocity.

Leaving the wooden shafts sticking out?

The bolt stick problem has not explained yet, they would have been visible for a long time. Therefore, the Germans could have picked up all without problem even years after the battle. The iron of the heavy tips was quite valuable.

Ulenspiegel

Perhaps the locals quit the field to keep harrying the Romans on their march back to the Limes. Also, how overgrown or muddy was the field?

Unless it was the Germanic penchant for sacrficing battle loot? Perhaps the field was declared sacred and so nothing was touched?

@Cooper

On the Kalkriese battlefield (site of Varus battle 9 AD or of one of the revenge battles around 15 AD) there were clear signs of plundering.

The items on the newly discovered battlefield were near the surface, so it is not likely that the items simply "disappeared" in the mud.

Ulenspiegel

What time of year was the battle? Any clues?

I'm a big fan of your country, by the way Ulenspiegel. I've been to the Wildschonau twice, once as part of a school trip to the passionspiel at Oberammergau and once again a few years ago. (the second visit to basically the same valley was coincidence- my wife booked the best available deal at the time!) I'd like to spend more time in Salzburg & Innsbruck and would like to see Vienna, especially the military museum. I just live in hope of one day being wealthy enough to afford to return! (Have acquired 2 more children since the last visit.) Hope you are having a good Christmas out there!

thanks for a great article

Possible scenario:

The Romans are in orderly retreat home. The Germans have been harrying the outnumbered Romans along the way, when the Romans make stand and attack. The Germans break and flee. The Romans give sign of pursuit, but instead hastily withdraw to escape further harassment. Neither force remains at the battle site to recover anything. The Romans opt for safety— they can make more weapons— and the Germans fear the Romans are pursuing them. By the time everyone realizes it's all over, no one much cares about going back. Enter nature to do her work. Within a season, the signs of the battle are hidden and the past slips into memory, then murmur, then silence.

Either that or the Germans keep shadowing/harrying the Romans?

The battle took place around 230 AD. The radio carbon method with material from a lance tip gave an age of about 1800 years.

The most recent coins that were found were dated 192 AD.

The implications are interesting, even in the beginning 3rd century the Roman army performed large scale operations many hundred kilometers eastwards of the border in Germanic territories.

Ulenspiegel

But no clues as to time of year?

From Roman sources it was known, that after invasions (213, 233) of the Alemannen the Romans operated in Germanic territories under Caracalla and Maximinus Thrax (235).

Usually it was assumed that their operations took place near the limes, this may have been a wrong assumption.

Thrax used a force that comprised many units from the east, therefore the many archers would point to 235 AD.

What I mean is, any clues to the season of the year when the battle ocurred?

I have no idea

Metal disappears from view faster in certain weather conditions than others, is why I ask

news. yahoo.com/ s/afp/20081218/ ts_afp/germanyar chaeology_ 081218171410

KALEFELD, Germany (AFP) – Archaeologists have unearthed the flotsam of a battle fought in the heart of Germany between Roman legionnaires and Germanic tribes 200 years after Romans were believed to have retreated behind the Rhine.

Until now, the Teutoburg Forest defeat of three Roman legions by Germanic tribes, 2,000 years ago next year, was thought to have ended Rome's expansion into northeastern Europe and set the limits of the empire at the Rhine.

The latest archaeological find was originally made by amateurs using metal-detectors who discovered a number of Roman weapons in a hilly pine-wooded region between Hanover and Kassel.

The precise location of the site is being kept secret to prevent pilfering, with more supervised digging to take place next summer.

Archaeologists, who began exploring the site in 2006, have now ascertained that a bloody battle took place on the approach to a pass, involving archers and cavalry equipped with long-range catapults capable of piercing shields at a distance of 300 metres (yards).

"The findings show that possibly 1,000 Romans were involved" in the battle, according to archaeologist Petra Loenne.

"This is an unrivalled, well-preserved site," she added.

Some 600 artefacts have so far been found, including spears, arrowheads, axes, armour plating, tent pegs, catapult bolts and coins.

One such coin depicts Roman Emperor Commodus, who reigned from 180 to 192 A.D., while fragments of swords and carts suggest the battle took place in the first half of the third century A.D.

Arrowheads point to the involvement on the Roman side of Persian and North African archers, while the paths followed by the Roman soldiers can be traced thanks to nails left from their sandals.

Archaeologists do not know who won the battle.

They have discovered little by way of artefacts left by the Germanic fighters and believe the tribes may have carried away their dead for burial.

But, unlike other battlefields where victims were stripped of their belongings, the Roman dead appear to have been left where they lay, their armour and weapons untouched.

The archaeologists believe the Roman soldiers might have been heading home, some 200 kilometres (125 miles) to the southwest, after carrying out a raid deep into enemy territory.

Eighty percent of the arrowheads were found to the south of the battlefield, suggesting the legionnaires were attempting to break through in that direction.

Until now, historians believed that, in the wake of the Teutoburg Forest massacre in which thousands of legionnaires were slaughtered, the Romans limited their military operations east of the Rhine to short punitive raids.

Maximinus Thrax, the first Roman soldier-emperor who reigned briefly from 235 to 238, was personally involved in operations against the Germanic tribes.

Historical records even suggested he had led an army towards the North Sea to subdue the "barbarians".

"Until now these sources had been considered quite unreliable," said historian Michael Geschwinde.

But "we must now look at the historical records in a new light," said Henning Hassmann, another archaeologist involved.