"British Sudan grey" Topic

Modern artistic interpretations of the 1884 'grey' uniforms vary from off-white to very dark, but the majority view for the army seems to be a medium blue-grey. However, the couple of modern paintings of Royal Marines at Suakin that I've seen favour light neutral grey.

Is this simply down to different interpretations of limited sources, or is there evidence that the Navy and army were using different cloth ?

Thanks in advance

Different interpretations or the primary sources were recording uniforms in different stages of fading and sun bleaching.

go with a shade that appeals to you, it will in all likelihood be 'right'.

I've also read articles that had about a hundred RMLI in red tunics , on the Nile ? A long time ago, I thought it would be an easy era to do accurate uiforms for ? Just about anything goes, it seems ?

Oh just about. British uniforms seemed to change with almost every theatre and campaign.

Wargames Illustrated has the Perry Brothers Sudan Campaign uniform guide as a downloadable pdf at their website. It gives a pretty good guide to the campaign which probably has the most diverse set of uniforms.

I would go with light neutral grey, myself.

"a hundred RMLI in red tunics , on the Nile ?"

I've never heard of that.

Read it a couple of places ? May have been in TVAGs' 2 volume set on the Sudan war ?? Mine are loaned out, raht now

Some troops were loaded into steamers in their scarlets and sent up the Nile to try and relieve Khartoum at the last gasp, but they were too late. They couldn't have been RMLI though. I'm pretty sure the RM uniform is blue, not scarlet.

Nope. My mistake. A quick check at britishempire.co.uk shows the RMLI dress uniform as scarlet. So it could've been RMLI in the steamers. I'm sure there's an account of the campaign that says what regiment they were from.

The Osprey shows the RMLI in blue IIRC.

The River Column changed into red for the Battle of Kirkeban.

The RMLI was also issued grey uniforms during the Egyptian Sudan thing. They did have the blue uniform, also.Osprey is OK but ya have to take them with a grain of salt (I've found, anyway) ?
Factor in that Khaki/Kharki included the gray uniforms in some reports and it becomes a can o' worms ? <lol>

Paul

From memory a small number (ca.30 ?) of red coats were taken along for the detachment on the steamers, who were drawn from whichever line regiment formed part of the Desert Column. The only RMs on the Nile front at the time were in the Guards Camel Regt and would not have been on the final run to Khartoum.
I believe there was a single RMLI officer with the Camel Corps who insisted on wearing his red jacket, and unsurprisingly got himself sniped as a result.

Full dress would be red for RMLI and blue for RMA, but my impression is that both wore blue as a shipboard working dress. RMs landed in Egypt in 1882 wore this, and I think that's the Osprey plate you are thinking of.

I'm looking at Suakin 1884, and I'm fairly confident that they were wearing grey with white equipment and unstained helmets. I'm just a little hazy on the shade of grey.

I have a very faint memory of reading somewhere about a khaki pagri on the white helmet, but can't remember where I got that from, and it's not repeated in any of the references I can find.

Thanks for the replies

Does anyone know of a good history book for the Royal Marines, a book that has a lot of color photos or plates along with their battle history.

@James
"Some troops were loaded into steamers in their scarlets and sent up the Nile"

They were 20 men of the Royal Sussex Regiment, chosen for their "steadiness and marksmanship." They took some red jerseys or tunics (depending on source) with them to show that Brits had reached Khartoum (relying on the jungle telegraph to reduce the Mahdi's credibility, ie., Brits were famous among natives for wearing red coats, so red = British, to the natives eyes) However, I haven't seen a source confirming that the actually *wore* those red coats. As an aside, Sudanese troops were the vast majority on the 2 steamers.

@tinned fruit
"The River Column changed into red for the Battle of Kirkeban."

I haven't heard/read that or have forgotten. Do you have a source?

@beartooth
"RMs landed in Egypt in 1882 wore this"

Blue for Egypt 1882, grey for Suakin 84, can't remember Suakin 85, (probably grey) and I believe it was grey for the Nile.

Their Home Service uniform was indeed red, with bluecloth spiked helmet.

The only red I know of on the Nile was at Ginnis, one regiment wore it, can't remember which one, sorry. Sourcebooks are packed away at the moment. I think it was the Durham Light Infantry, or the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry. Don't quote me on that.

Anayway, for the RMLI I would go with light grey, it helps make them look like they are under bright sunlight.

@Irish Marine
Try…..
"SMITH PETER C 'Per Mare Per Terram' A History of the Royal Marines"
(By sea, by Land) Gives a decent history of them, and is quite cheap, I believe. Can't remember what the pics/plates are like.

Hope that helps,
peachey

I agree with Tinned Fruit on the red uniforms at Kirkeban. I recall reading this somewhere.

Sorry to have been so late back – there is a famous painting showing the highlanders in red coats and there is reference to it in Brackenbury's "The River Column".

De Gleichen (sic) refers to a Marine Officer with the Camel Corps wearing red getting singled out for special attention by Ansar riflemen and being wounded. Probably discouraged (or encouraged) them!

Hope this helps.

Phil