"Who had the Pumas?" Topic

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that there were only 50 AC 234/2 Pumas ever made. (Because the turret with the 50mm gun was originally designed for the Pz II "Luchs", but when that project was canceled so were the turrets. The 50 were some that had been run off before the project was canceled. Or something like that.)

Now 50 just happens to be exactly enough to outfit two companies. (Four platoons of 6 each, plus 1 for the company commander.) Since any given panzer reconnaissance battalion only had one heavy armored car company, that means there must have been two, and only two, divisions in the entire German Heer/Luftwaffe/SS that had Pumas instead of the AC 234/1 with the 20mm gun.

So, does anyone know which 2 divisions those were?

There were just over 100 made, its on here somewhere, I`ll have a search.

I knew I`d seen it somewhere, check this thread – TMP link

101, AFAIK.

One of my favorite vehicles in WWII. Not sure why, as it is kind of ugly. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I used one in the first introductory game I had into WWII gaming (or even historicals for that matter) and I managed to drive around some flanks and knock out a few enemy tanks (I can't remember which now). It was a blast.

Lehr and 2nd Panzer used them the most in Normandy, so if encountering those units recon elements, you stood a chance of coming across one.

I'm sure 2nd Panzer had some,( have a few pictures) but no idea how many.

I dunno, for a WW2 AFV they have rather slick lines. European styling, German performance and handling… yeah baby, nothing says 'style' like cruising in a Puma with the top down. It's sure to attract all the chicks. :^)

Acording the the link referenced above, 2nd Panzer had 25 Pumas issued in May/June 1944 and then a further 10 in Nov/Dec 1944. (Presumably just in time to be captured out of fuel at Celles).

"I dunno, for a WW2 AFV they have rather slick lines. European styling, German performance and handling… yeah baby, nothing says 'style' like cruising in a Puma with the top down. It's sure to attract all the chicks. :^)"

The /3 and /4 versions were ragtops…

With racing stripes. Kewl!

White wall tires…

2nd panzer had three, I think three to each division would be right.

2nd Panzer looks to have gotten 35. Where did you get 3?

Am I the only one who can read??

Martin covered it already.

and there is this handy little website on the SdKfz 234 series
link

The Russians probably had a good laugh when the spotted the first of the hundred Pumas. I hope the Germans engineered a really good reverse gear on it. Bring on the Pumas.

Of course, if the Puma was doing it's job…the Russians never got to see one!

It did have 6 gears in reverse and the radio op could drive it backwards if he had to. It's not supposed to face Russian armor, at least not if it wants to live!

Excellent info. Thanks!

(And I was already planning to do the 2nd Panzer Division! With Panzer Lehr, its corps-mate my second priority.)

I didn't realize that so few of the 234/1 were made, nor that it came AFTER the puma. Were other divisions still using the older 8-wheelers, or what?

I always find it strange that when I put Pumas on the table, everyone is all like 'cool, pumas.' However, if we're playing a 1941 scenario and I give the Germans Panhard ACs, everyone is '?' This, despite the fact that the Germans used about twice as many Panhards in Russia than they ever made Pumas.

I guess I'm just pedantic.

As (apparently) with most everybody I have always thought that the Puma was a rather cool looking vehicle, and the 50mm gun tended to make it a recce vehicle with a little more bite than usual. But I rarely field them because they WERE so rare. I guess it's the same sort of situation that would lead me to never purchase a Maus for gaming.

And Mserafin, I suppose that is exactly what you are talking about! I too have a bunch of Panhards for the Germans, and R35s for battles in Normandy. I'd much rather field historical orders of battle in my scenarios.

Hey, wait a minute!! I thought *moi* was the only denizen of TMP who gave his German forces *French* equipment?!! What gives here, historical *accuracy* or something?!!!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Not true Leyland, my Germans have all sorts of odd kit – as you well know :-)

LOL you will find Pumas all over FOW recon battlegroups!!!

>"The Russians probably had a good laugh when the spotted the first of the hundred Pumas."<

Not if they were driving an armored car or a light tank.

It is interesting how many minis are made of tanks that were fielded in small numbers – the Germans only ever made about 75 Jagdtigers, about 500 King Tigers and about 1300 Tiger Is, but that doesn't stop us from putting them on the table!

Yes, model manufacturers should charge for the models in proportion to the actual costs of the real tanks; so that a Tiger would cost a lot more than a PzIII, or a Sherman or a T34!

"LOL you will find Pumas all over FOW recon battlegroups!!!"

Well the simple answer is if your opponent fields a Puma where one couldn`t be you, gently explain why he can`t have it and remove it off the table and deposit it in the nearest bin :-)

"It is interesting how many minis are made of tanks that were fielded in small numbers – the Germans only ever made about 75 Jagdtigers, about 500 King Tigers and about 1300 Tiger Is, but that doesn't stop us from putting them on the table!"

My major gripe with Trumeter, Dragon and the other newish manufacturers. They produce great stuff (ready built and painted) but its all crap – Pershings, Stalin IIs, tiger II, Jagdtiger, etc, etc.

Of course as business men they produce what people will buy…. So its our fault for buying them…

Richard Baber.
I can say one thing in favor of Trumpeter and Dragon: They have eventually come around and now make T-34s and Stug IIIs.
I saw kits of Stug III short and long barrel from Trumpeter in my local hobby store. I'm keeping an eye out for the pre-builds.

I also noticed Unimax has a diecast PZ IV in 1/72.

I`ll have to look out for the Stugs at the next show I go to, thanks for the heads up.