"GW Black Primer" Topic

I have purchased three cans of GW's latest primer formula over the past year, always thinking that I was just getting stuck with a bad batch. I just tried my third on some of my Copplestone 10mm Half-orcs, and I am about to scream. Why is this stuff so bad? Why are they even still selling it? It goes on like a bad wash; the coverage, no matter how much I spray, is horrible. I shook the can for a long time thinking that might have been the cause of my previous experiences with this product, but still the same results.

Has anyone else had this trouble? And if so, should I just switch over to a primer designed for auto body repair?

Cheers!

You dont need to spend $15 USD on GW primer. Krylon makes good primer for alot less.

Do they actually call it a primer, or is it just "Chaos Black"?

From what I've been able to determine, the only thing GW sells that is even vaguely a real primer is Roughcoat, and that's, well, rough.

Krylon (at Walmart, etc) or Painter's Choice (at Home Depot).

I've been using Walmart brand primer for years,not even the Krylon I mean the really cheap stuff for 89 cents a can.You can buy what 12 cans for the price of one GW.Some 'real" painters tell me you have to use better primer but I've painted about 7 or 8 thousand figs with Walmart brand and they look fine to me.

FYT when I worked in marketing at GW US, Krylon made our primer (back when it was still good) and just slapped our name on the can. You'll want "sandable" primer. If it's not sandable you'll end up with a seal that is too tight for the paint to adhere to, or so I was told by the Krylon reps.

Best stuff I've found is Duplicolor Sandable Primer, available in most auto stores for around $4 USD

I figured I would have to make the transition to auto body spray primer. Thank you all for the the input.

I have some Tamiya Surface Primer (awesome primer by the way), but it only comes in gray and white; I started this project years ago using a black undercoat, and want the armies to look consistent.

I just ran to my local hardware store and picked up some chassis primer in black, and resprayed the minis. I hope the thin coat of GW crap doesn't make a mess of things.

What in the hell were they thinking, by the way, when they sold this stuff? And why is it still on the market?

I'll second Duplicolor, best I have tried so far.

my bro got some recently and it worked great, so i think they just chnged it, but i think the can looks the same, so good luck, you may get older crap stuff, not even red shirts tried to sell that crap!

fitterpete, I agree with you whole hog. The cheaper wal mart stuff is BETTER than the krylon stuff for mini priming. It does coat as thickly so it leaves details better. Especially for metal minis when you might have to zap them three or four times to really get them black.

I swear by the stuff. I've had a bad can now and again, but that is bound to happen, I go through about a dozen cans every two months. And that has been going on for the last 7 years or so.

My vote goes to Armoury brand hobby primer. It always gives a good consistent coating and it dries in less than 30 minutes so that you can start painting the figures right away.

In Spain there aren't those brands you're naming but I must say that althought expensive, GW black primer or Chaos Black, works perfectly with all my plastic and metal minis. Actually I'm painting 10mm Copplestones' and I primed them in GW Chaos Black without any problem.

I gave up on spray cans some time ago. Too fiddly. Now I brush on black acrylic gesso. Works MUCH better.

Did you shaked the can before starting to spray?
Looking at what you say is the result, this is clearly not the case. You have to shake it at least two minutes before spraying your models.

BTW, I don't use GW primer anymore. Cost too much. But it is among the best I've ever used.

I shook the can for five minutes. I bought the new GW primer when it first came out about two years ago. Thin, grayish in color, and went on like a wash. I took it back to the store, who not only exchanged it, but allowed me to test the new can on their property before taking it home. Same result. Proprietor opened another can, same results. It was then that he told me he was getting complaints from a couple other customers, and was running tests with me that day to see if it was true. He then produced the last can of the old primer he had in stock to spray as a comparison. Beautiful stuff. He let me take that can home.

When this can ran out, I tried GW chaos black spray again, and got the same watered down results. I exchanged it for something else, but I cannot remember what.

Now I am in Japan, and I needed black primer, which is not available at model and hobby shops here (only white and gray). I bought the third (and now my last) can of chaos black spray at the GW shop in Ikebukuro. I waited all summer for the crisp autumn air (no humidity) to spray six months worth of models, and started with the Copplestone stuff this morning. (I washed the Copplestone metal thoroughly three times to remove all the solvent.) I got the exact same results as the first time.

It is possible that they have a new mix out. If so, I would like to confirm this. Also, they should have recalled this crappy primer along time ago, instead of having their customers eat their own mistake. Regardless, I am moving on to other products.

Thanks for everyone's input. I greatly appreciate it.

I completely agree with Ghazhkull….I use the Duplicolor primer as well. I think it's the best primer I've ever used. They also make a primer that etches. These are great. It just makes sense to me, use an automotive primer on metal minis.

Think maybe GW primer is now geared for plastics since they have gone that way too?I wouldn't know, havn't used their stuff in about 10 years,but maybe it works better on plastic.

I really like a Home Depot product called "America's Finest". It is made by Rust-Oelum. I use the Ultra Flat Black (HD2876). I often prime on humid North Carolina evenings and this brand does not turn bumpy in humidity. It also works great in the winter when the humidity is down. It is $2 USD a can. I do not like the cheaper "Basic Color" from Home Depot.

I've never been satisfied with any primer. I've tried GW, Armoury, Krylon, Wal-Mart, Ducote, etc. While Krylon is my preferred choice, I've had problems with consistency and fuzz in all of these brands. After screwing up about 30-40 Perry Choson, I've sworn off spray primers. I now solely use brush-on gesso, however, gesso tends to rub-off on pointy bits of metal. You need to be careful.

I love GW primer and have rarely ever had a bad can. But going up to $15 USD bucks a can has finished them for me. It's not that I can't afford it but is more the principle of the thing. Highway robbery offends me…

A note on the Chaos Black – about two years ago it became an actual spray paint, not primer. For a while I would use white primer and then spray it black with fantastic results, but a bit expensive.

In the US at least, they just reformulated the Chaos Black spray and now it works great by itself again. If you see a can that has so many legal warnings on it that you can barely see what color you are buying, that's the new stuff! ;)

I've also tried Krylon, but it took too many coats for my liking. Rackham makes some primer that I've used with some success, but I don't know where to get more in the US now. The first can of Armory that I ever tried completely fuzzed up on me, so I'm a bit soured on them, but I might give it another try down the line.

I think what primer "works" depends on the users location.

For instance, I live in Northern VA, USA, within walking distance of the Potomac River. It's basically a swamp, so the Spring, Summer and even Fall can be very humid.

Over the last 10 years here, I've found some primers work better than others.

The process is I spray just outside and immediately turn around and bring in the miniatures to dry in my basement. The basement is about 68 degress and about 20% humitidy. Outside can be up to 70%+ humid. Temp varies based on season of course.

GW Spray "PRIMER", the old mix, worked great. I quite using GW sprays when they removed it a couple of years ago. But with the old stuff, I never had a problem. I could spray in temps down to 40 Degree F low or high humidity, or spray in temps as high as 85 Degree F low or high humidity. 100% humidity of course wouldn't work so no, I don't mean to imply I could spray in the rain.

Armoury is unusable as it's inconsistant. It sucks for me.

Krylon is too thick and very sensitive to humidity and temperature.

Testors Spray is too thick but works for me if I really had no other choice.

Walmart Brand – Works about as well as the old GW Primer, so that's what I use. Actually, the only difference is the Walmart brand doesn't dry semi-gloss like the GW brand did. At 99c each, it's a great deal and I've sprayed 50+ Perry Miniatures Choson, 100+ Plastic Romans and Celts, Three Flames of War "Companies" (made up of resin, metal and their plastic bases), two 10mm Old Glory Ancients armies, 1 OG Shipyard Trireme, 80 or so Tyranids mostly plastic but a few metal and 40+ Perry Miniatures AWI. ALL without an issue. Typing that out I think I'm a miniature addict but that's another story…

Krylon "Camo" paint works well for me too, unlike their primer or other brands. It is very tolerant and sprays on very smooth keeping the detail. I'm using the Brown can to cover my Zulus so I don't have to paint their skin.

My point is I think one has to try out different spray primers as what works for one person in one area may not work as well, or may work better, for someone in another area. The process for applying and drying matters too of course.

I too have used the Krylon Camo series with good effect in humidity.

I use Liquitex Black Gesso and paint it on. I find coverage is better and I don't get that awful smell.

First of all, one should always prime with white. There is nothing better on the market(IMO) than Krylon flat white primer. I have used it from 20 percent to 100 percent humidity (as in raining) with no issues.

Black primer is a waste of time & money(again, IMO). With white primer, one can do a multitude of shades that you simply cannot do over black.

Using Krylon products, I have never had any issues with humidity. I hear this a lot from other gamers, and I simply do not have a problem with humidity. I can prime & paint in any weather or temperature in Texas. (If it's raining, I prime under the patio roof, just as an FYI).

:-)

- Greg.

"First of all, one should always prime with white. There is nothing better on the market(IMO) than Krylon flat white primer. I have used it from 20 percent to 100 percent humidity (as in raining) with no issues.

Black primer is a waste of time & money(again, IMO). With white primer, one can do a multitude of shades that you simply cannot do over black."

What may be true for you is certainly not true for others, including myself. You are wrong, in my opinion, and my paint jobs would bear me out. Use decent paint and you can get every imaginable shade over black primer that you possibly can over white.

Now that you mention it, that would make a great poll topic! I just checked back two and a half years in the Polls Topics area and there was no poll about it. I'll go and suggest it now.

Regarding what works for some people vs others, there is yet another variable; storage of the spray cans.

For example, mine are kept in the cool dry basement. It's possible where I store it has an effect on when I can use it based on the temperature and humidity in my area. If someone keeps their cans in a "warmer and dry" or "colder and humid" or "warmer and humid", well that may affect how it behaves under what could be the "same" temperature and humidity that is working for someone else.

Now, what works of one artist using a particular primer color like white vs. black vs. grey vs. really is up to the painter. So I agree with nazrat on that. Although it's great that one can be excited for a particular primer working for them exclusively. I didn't bring it up because the OP was asking about black primer but I use white primer where I think appropriate. Mostly for my SYW 28mm Austrians, 10mm Ancient Indian army, Perry AWI 28mm British (the others previously listed were the Americans and "Hessians") and 15mm Flames of War Mid War British Vehicles.

Oh, and Armoury Spray Paint still sucks…

Primers that I use regularly right now.

krylon- ultramatte black, grey, white
Armory- black, white grey.
Duplicolor sandable- grey

I used to not mind GW primers, but they are 2x what they were just a few years ago. Not worth the price then, and definitely not now.

I've also sprayed numerous enamels or even modeling acrylics (tamiya, pollyS) without problems to get a great basecoat.

re: armory primers. I don't know what you are talking about. Mine have been excellent. Their black is the flatest that I've tried out there. You have to shake them WELL… like 1-2 minutes well. They are cheap too- 6-7$ max.

I also decant my sprays intermittently into bottles/cups for airbrushing, using a plastic straw. I get finer atomization that you'd ever get with any can, hands down. Clean up's the only hassle.

The biggest problem with sprays is that they put too much down at a given time (the walmart sprays I've tried, or rustoleum). The paint vehicle (fluid part) usually ends up being the thing that is the most 'caustic' and can ruin plastics.

re: black/grey/white. It's really preference and what's easier. I do whatever is closer to the 'values' set that I am painting. I.e.- if the model has high values (e.g. whites, light colors, etc.), then I'll tend to base in whites or greys.

However, anymore, i also use an 'overspraying' technique, either with canned sprays or, more often, with airbrushed acrylics to build up contrasts from a black (mainly for speed… since they will be really dark in the recesses.).

For me, its whatever lets me do a project more effectively and efficiently.

Well, from Nazrat's comments, it certainly appears, "to each his own". Let me rephrase my statement & say that I prefer white primer as I find it easier to use. :-)

With a white primer, I can take a small amount of brown paint and use it as a wash over the white to make varying shades of brown, just depending on how much brown & water one uses.

Nazrat may know of an easy way to do this over black primer using a wash to achieve the same result, & if so, I am always open to learning something new.

For me, I use a lot of inks and washes, and white primer has always worked best for me. Inks just don't seem to work well for me on black primer.

As you have posted on the ancients forum I assume you will have some iron armour on the figures. If that is the case I found it best to put a thin black ink wash over the raw metal figure and hand paint the non armoured parts by hand. With the armoured parts I do a light dry brush of silver after the wash, look great and no loss of detail.

I paint 15mm and strongly recommend this method.

I really like a Home Depot product called "America's Finest".

I completely agree. In addition to the black they make dozens of other colors that work very well for a base coat. Chesnut is superb for WWII Americans for example.

I stopped buying GW when it went to $8 USD a can. When the heck did it hit $15?

When I used spray on primers, I would run into problems now and again.

Eventually, I settled on grey for a primer color. I felt that it gave me the best of both worlds….in between black and white…to each his own.

I am over using spray on primers…too much hassle, smell and screw ups.

I recently switched to brush on Liquitex Grey Gesso and am very happy with it.

MUCH of high art of the Italian Renaissance used gesso as a base, and the paintings are still in tact 500+ years later.
I have seen many of these paintings in the Getty in Los Angeles, and they still look beautiful. Why not use the stuff on miniatures? Goes on a little globby, but dries tight and nice with lots of detail…

I agree with "I find coverage is better and I don't get that awful smell."

Sean in California

I remember using the old IMR brush-on primer. Now that's going back a few years!

I am not sure where the hobby gets its current spray primer from, but the earliest "brand specific" including GW was essentially automotive primer. The auto industry is such a huge user of the stuff, that even the largest hobby user had a hard time getting its phone calls answered.

Well to each their own.

I recently switched to brush on Liquitex Grey Gesso and am very happy with it.

MUCH of high art of the Italian Renaissance used gesso as a base, and the paintings are still in tact 500+ years later.
I have seen many of these paintings in the Getty in Los Angeles, and they still look beautiful. Why not use the stuff on miniatures?

First there is no way that gesso will bond onto metal as well as a metal primer will. They will both provide a microscopic roughened surface to "hold" your paint, but gesso will not adhere as well. If it did, then our cars, appliances, metal tools, etc would be gessoed instead of primed. Gesso is chaulk (calcium carbonate) and acrylic pigments, (assuming you use acrylic gesso). If you take care of your miniatures it may not matter. But rubbing your paintjob on a primed vs unprimed figure will quickly show you a difference.

Comparing metal miniatures with paintings makes little sense. Gesso is able to bind to the porous surface of canvas, paper or wood, to make a "biteable" surface to accept the pigment. Also, most old paintings are heavily chemically treated by professional restoration experts to stabilize the colours and prevent UV damage. Gesso can't get all the credit.

However, there are 4,000 year old Egyptian wooden figures that were "primed" with gesso, whose painting still looks very nice. But that is wood. And you are right, you do avoid the terrible (and toxic) smell.

Ralph

Well,

I don't want to put the "spray paint" metal primer companies out of business, but I have paid some heavy money over the years to buy primer that supposedly was specfically made for metal miniatures only to find that it sat too long in storage or was junk to begin with.

I would have been better off spraying my miniatures with the stuff they use to make fake snow on merchant windows at Christmas time.

I don't want to cook some toast on my miniatures or glue them to the top of my car to take them for a ride through the rain and snow and sun.
Ha ha.

But you make a good point.

I would think with a good U.V. protector sealer, they should hold up pretty well with a gesso base for some time to come.

Sean in California

At Der Alte Fritz suggestion, I bought a can of the new Armory white spray primer. I am very happy with it. It reminds me of the good GW primer of many years ago.

As for humidity/temp etc. I sprayed it here in my open garage right after a rain storm here in the california central valley. It was in the low 50's fahrenheit and I had no problems at all.

It comes out a little heavy, so you need to keep the can moving so as to not fill in detail, but overall I'm a fan.

It's nothing like the old Armory spray that left your models fuzzy. This stuff is great. Good call Fritz!

And at $5.95 USD a can USD you can't go wrong.

I use both Chaos Black & Plastikote car spray. Both work OK if conditions are right

I liked the old GW black primer, before the switch. It still gave problems once in a while, but it was better than the Armoury I'm using now, and I felt paying a little more (back then) was worth it to get the results I want. Now it's just plain silly to charge that much money and have it perform so poorly.

Sigh.

The GW works fine for me……

Dear all,
painting/priming/modelling threads are always of great interest to me. I live in East Asia and it's not always easy to access the same hobby products that I can get back in the UK. Trial and error, countless hrs on threads like this…
So…what do you think about GW Skull white spray. Is it really a proper primer? Does it work OK? I'm going to use it on my Perry Choson Koreans and my 15mm ancients, but will test first.
Any thoughts/experiences with GW skull white?
Regards,
Tony Banks