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"DBMM Cannae refight at Hutt Wargaming Club" Topic


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Aloysius the Gaul22 Sep 2008 6:28 p.m. PST

DBMM-ers from around Wellington are going to gather at the Hutt Club for a refight of Cannae this Saturday (27 Sept). The club meets at St Brendan's School Hall on Palmer Crescent in Upper Hutt. Setup starts at 9 – the game starts when setup finishes, and ends when it ends…..

Being almost all 25mm players it's going to be a big toys battle – I've calculated that the Roman army will form up 4.68 METRES wide (a little over 15 feet), so we're going to have 3 x 6'x4' tables to play on.

The Romans are mostly going to be Romans…albeit the legions will be a little bit Republican, a little bit EIR, a little bit LIR, a little bit Byzantine and the Triarii mostly hoplites!

Getting enough Gauls was the main problem – however we have large numbers of all sorts of Irr Ax & Wb(F) that will do, and plenty of actual Carthaginian spearmen for the Africans – albeit they will look like Carthaginian Spearmen and not Romans! (we have 2 x 25mm Cartho armies to get them from)

Figure scale is 1:250 for the infantry, 1:200 for the cavalry, and the armies are as follows (yes I know that some of the stuff is arguable, but a decision had to be made….)

Romans:
8 legions, each 6 leves/velites Ps(I), 12 Hastati & Principes (Bd(O)), 3 Triarii (Sp(S)) as the armies of the previous year's consuls
8 Legions as above but 3 Ps, 11 Bd(I) and 3 Triarii as the newly raised armies of the 2 consuls and allowing for camp guards as below.
12 elements Cv(O) Romans for their right wing
18 elements Cv(O) Italians for their left wing.
Inert CinC, Ally Gen, 2 sub-gens in those numbers

Possible alternative interpretations for the Romans are for the CinC to be not inert and the Italian cavalry to be mostly Cv(I) – both of which would conform to the current draft of the Polybian Roman army list…we'll see…..

Some of the nominal infantry strength is presumed to be guarding the camps – I've decided to take a figure I read of about 7500 light and 2500 heavy infantry for these troops, and further assumed that they will mostly be taken from the 8 "raw" legions as being troops not good enough
to be in the main battle line.

CinC will command left wing and 4 raw legions on the left. 2 Sub-generals (proconsuls) will each command 4 "old" legions in the centre and get the high PIP dice, and the ally-gen will get 4 raw legions and the right wing cavalry.

Carthaginians:
16 Sp(S) African infantry
80 Reg Ax(O) Gauls (the rest assumed to be guarding the camp as per some accounts)
16 Reg Bd(F) Spanish
28 Ps(S) assorted Javelinmen and 4 Ps(O) slingers
18 Lh(O) Numidians
33 Reg Cv(O) Spanish/Gauls
3 Reg Cv(O) Liby-phoenecian Cv(O) generals (Brilliant CinC, 2 subs)

Neither side will have camps on table, but I'm still undecided whether to count them for ME purposes.

This will NOT be a free-form refight – ie the Romans will NOT get to setup as they wish nor allocate PIP dice as they wish – they will be stuck with the historical setup and each legion will be setup in 6 or 7 ranks (depending on the # of Ps they have) – 1 or 2 of Ps, 4 of Bd, 1 of
Sp.

For the sin of organising this and screwing the Romans with the conditions I'm going to be Varro!! :)

Personal logo Condotta Supporting Member of TMP22 Sep 2008 6:58 p.m. PST

Wow, now that will be a feast for the eyes…since mine won't be there (eyes, that is), how about posting an AAR with photos?

Just say "Aye".

Whatisitgood4atwork22 Sep 2008 7:42 p.m. PST

Wow. I too am looking forward to pictures.

A couple of questions spring to mind however:

1) Does DBMM allow troops to withdraw in good order, as apparently the Carthos did to draw the Romans into a double enveloped position?

2) Will you have enough room even with three tables? You will either have 18 x 4, which gives very little depth given the Cartho strategy of giving way, or 12 x 6 which will not give the Romans enough room to deploy by your own calculation.

Good luck with the game!

Jerzei Balowski23 Sep 2008 4:58 a.m. PST

Cannae's always a fun battle to recreate.

Aloysius the Gaul23 Sep 2008 3:34 p.m. PST

Yes there's been any number of requests for photos!! :)

they'll probably go in the NZ & DBMM Yahoo group files sections & I'll post links.

DBMM allows troops beaten in combat to recoil – so the Romans will likely push the Gauls back (baring some truly outrageous dice luck!)

4 feet is plenty for this to happen – each recoil is a base depth, which is 30mm – so 10 recoils to the foot! :) Even with empty space between the armies to start, and Carthage only getting half the table depth to set up in it will be enough.

In addition the Carthaginians will need to win the cavalry battles to allow the Africans to advance onto the Roman flanks (yes I know one source says the Romans simply pushed forward….but if that was the case then there'd be no need to win the cavalry battles – so a combination of Romans going forward and Carthaginian infantry advancing on the flanks works for me)

the real test will be whether the Romans can actually break through the Gauls or not – it was touch and go on the day, and the Cartho's will have to work quite hard to defeat the Roman flanks before it happens.

Aloysius the Gaul25 Sep 2008 9:06 p.m. PST

The movement trays are cut, the deployment plans have been organised, the hordes of heavy infantry have been assembled, and a MacDonalds' breakfast awaits early tomorrow morning!

Romans: (totals 1767 AP, 363 ME)
Varro as inert CinC – Reg Cv(O)
18 Italian cavalry as Reg Cv(O)
9 Velites/leves as Reg Ps(I)
45 Hastati/Principes as Reg Bd(I)
9 Triari as Reg Sp(S)
2 Reg Bg(O) as command baggage (off table)
93.5 ME

Paulus as ally general Reg Cv(O)
12 Roman cavalry as Reg Cv(O)
9 Velites/leves as Reg Ps(I)
45 Hastati/Principes as Reg Bd(I)
9 Triari as Reg Sp(S)
2 Reg Bg(O) as command baggage (off table)
87.5 ME

Marcus Atilius as sub-general Reg Bd(O)
24 Velites/leves as Reg Ps(I)
47 Hastati/Principes as Reg Bd(O)
12 Triarii as Reg Sp(S)
2 Reg Bg(O) as command baggage (off table)
91 ME

Gnaius Servilius as sub-general Reg Bd(O)
24 Velites/leves as Reg Ps(I)
47 Hastati/Principes as Reg Bd(O)
12 Triarii as Reg Sp(S)
2 Reg Bg(O) as command baggage (off table)
91 ME

Carthaginians: (totals 1181 AP, 218 ME)
Hannibal as Brilliant CinC, Reg Cv(O)
14 assorted Javelinmen Reg Ps(S)
2 Slingers Reg Ps(O)
16 African Spearmen Reg Sp(S)
8 Iberian infantry Reg Bd(F)
40 Gallic infantry Reg Ax(O)
(army baggage)
76 ME

Mago as sub general Reg Cv(O)
14 assorted Javelinmen Reg Ps(S)
2 Slingers Reg Ps(O)
16 African Spearmen Reg Sp(S)
8 Iberian infantry Reg Bd(F)
40 Gallic infantry Reg Ax(O)
(army baggage)
76 ME

Hanno as sub general Reg Cv(O)
18 Numidians as Irr Lh(O)
(army baggage)
26 ME

Hasdrubal as sub general Reg Cv(O)
32 Iberian & Gallic Cavalry Reg Cv(O)
(army baggage)
40 ME

Off table camp
8 Irr Bg(O) as army baggage
4 ME

One thing that became obvious when getting down to this detail is just HOW expendable the Gauls are – the Carthaginians can afford to lose every one of them (40 elements, 20 ME per command) and still not be
broken….they'd be disheartened and wouldn't be far from it of course, but that'd leave them with mostly the Sp(S) who couldn't care less(plus a smaller number of Spanish Bd who could of course….but they can lose over half of those as well and still be hanging on for grim death – 40
Gauls + 5 Bd = 25 ME lost – they need to lose more than 25.33 ME to be broken)

(for those not familiar with DBMM, each element is worth a number of "Morale Equivalents" (ME) – "cheap" ones like light troops, some poor quality levies, etc are worth 1/2 ME per element, most are worth 1 ME, some high class ones like Knights, many troops graded "Superior" are worth 2 ME, and all generals are woth 4 ME. Commands become "disheartened" when they lose more than 1/4 their total ME, which makes them fight worse and it becomes more difficult to move closer to the enemy, and the break when they lose more than 1/3.

In this refight almost everything is worth 1 ME, except the Superior Spearmen (Triarii and Carthaginian veteran Spearmen) are worth 2, and all the light infantry and Gallic infantry are worth 1/2)

Something that irritates me is that DBMM baggage isn't right for this battle (IMO DBMM baggage is too complicated and has forgotten what it's there for….). As an ally general Paulus is supposed to have his own baggage and cannot share in the "army" baggage that the Romans have.
But this is palpable nonsense. The Roman army was unitary – the consul who was not in command each day did not, AFAIK, sit in his own camp then move back to the rest of the army the day after when he was CinC as the other consul moved out!! :(

Giving the Romans a camp with regular baggage would give them an extra PIP dice……which goes completely against their total lack of manoeuvrability in this battle (as I see it). So the only "realistic" option is to give each of the 4 Roman commands their own "off table" command baggage. The Carthaginians also get 4 ME/command from "off
table" army baggage in a 5th command – but it's irregular baggage so adds nothing to their on-table command & control.

(I won't try to explain DBMM baggage any more than that!! :))

Table depth may be an issue if the Carthaginian cavalry tries to repeat its historical manoeuvre and sweep around behind the Roman army. Historically there was nothing in that area other than the smaller of the 2 Roman camps, so the "edge of the world" at the Roman table edge should not prevent them from doing it.

So we'll play a "house rule" that Carthaginian cavalry that move off-table on the Roman edge can march off table, coming back on anywhere they like – using a tactical move if that is within 400p of any Romans who would prevent marching, or march moves if further than 400p.

I don't see table depth being an issue for pushing the Carthaginian centre off the table – they'll be at least 10 recoils away from that as I calculate it, which should take 15-20 turns in average. And if it does come to that we'll improvise something on the day! :)

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