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"Is the Earth Hollow?" Topic


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6,857 hits since 27 Aug 2008
©1994-2014 Bill Armintrout
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Warrenss2 Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 7:15 a.m. PST

For once I'd like to read a report/book that explored the evidence/facts (pro & cons) of the Hollow Earth ideas.

Make it very scientific, please. If it goes off on a trajectory that starts to talk about "higher conscience", UFOs, ESP, or "other worldly" male bovine excrement my interest would be lost and the report/book would TOTALLY lose it's credibility.

Here is some media (youtube) of Hollow Earth topics. Please listen for the SHEER (very out there) SPECULATION in these.

SOME speculation is okay… LOGICAL speculation that is…

link
link
link
link

This one is a documentary and is, IMHO, much better.
link

An adventurous 13-15 year old inside me would love for the earth to be hollow… perhaps just for the ideas of Dian the Beautiful and the other babes of Pellucidar. 8^]

Grizwald Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 8:27 a.m. PST

Tap it. If it goes "bong", it's hollow!

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 8:28 a.m. PST

Make it very scientific, please.

A logical impossibility, at least on the "pro" side.

Here's the biggest con argument of all: Gravity.
If we were inside a hollow Earth, we would all "fall" towards the center of mass, which would be the empty center of the sphere.

If we were outside a hollow Earth, the gravitational attraction of the Earth would not be as significant as it is now; it would be less than the gravitational attraction on the Moon! (For that matter, the Moon would not be in orbit, nor would anything else.)

So unfortunately for your request, any argument you are likely to see anywhere in favor of a hollow Earth will be specious at best, insane at worst, and in all likelihood trail off into UFO conspiracy rants and advice on the making of tinfoil hats.

But that doesn't mean you can't enjoy Pellucidar, or fantasies about Dian the Beautiful (subject to your spouse's objections, of course).

E Murray Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 8:45 a.m. PST


If we were inside a hollow Earth, we would all "fall" towards the center of mass, which would be the empty center of the sphere.

No, I'm afraid if we were inside a hollow Earth, the net gravity on us would be zero, and we'd all be "weightless" (which sounds like more fun than all piling up in the center, actually).

As far as gravity is concerned, we could be outside a hollow Earth as long as we were seriously mistaken about its density.

Personal logo McKinstry Supporting Member of TMP Fezian27 Aug 2008 8:49 a.m. PST

The world is not hollow but it is flat.

Personal logo Streitax Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 9:05 a.m. PST

"As far as gravity is concerned, we could be outside a hollow Earth as long as we were seriously mistaken about its density"

I'd prefer 'insanely mistaken'. But I'm a known cynic.

La Long Carabine Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 9:07 a.m. PST

Crap! I was going to watch that movie about journeying to the center of the earth and ya'll done gone and ruined the ending with your science and such. Thanks for ruining my afternoon, I suppose I'll just have to watch that movie about girls' pants traveling or something.

Next you'll probably ruin church for me by using science to prove the world is older than a few thousand years old or that we come from monkeys or some such rubbish. If ya'll use that science stuff to prove rednecks cannot drive fast like in NASCAR, I is going to get seriously upset.

:-)

LLC aka Ron

Roderick Robertson Supporting Member of TMP Fezian27 Aug 2008 9:16 a.m. PST

LLC,

Here, hold m'beer an' I'll show ya.

jpattern2 Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 9:21 a.m. PST

What Parzival said. Most of these people don't have the slightest grasp of how gravity works, and the ones that do need to bring in UFOs and alien tech to explain how you could stand on the underside of a hollow Earth.

In addition, a hollow Earth would require us to throw out everything we know or have theorized about how planets form, planetary mass, geothermalism, the iron-nickel core, physics, polar exploration, and so on.

Pseudoscience at best, sheer lunacy at worst.

But, yeah, I still like books, comics, and movies based in a hollow Earth.

JeanLuc Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 9:24 a.m. PST

"Here's the biggest con argument of all: Gravity."

HA! Gravitation was invented by the Judeo-Christian conspiration.
The earth is hollow. The sun is in the middle of the earth and shines only on one side.
the moon drifts between earth (the crust) and the sun.
The stars are simply the light from the sun that shines through cracks the dark side of the sun
We live on the innerside.

Top Gun Ace Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 10:18 a.m. PST

Of course it is hollow.

And……… filled with dinosaurs, amazon women, and tootsie rolls!

Why else do you think all of those UFO's are coming to the Earth and landing in our seas? They know where the underwater caves are to access the center of the Earth.

Personal logo Andrew Walters Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 10:19 a.m. PST

Assuming the Earth is reasonably spherical, and the hollow space inside the Earth is nearly spherical and co-centric with the Earth, you'd have zero-G everywhere inside the hollow. Maybe a great place for adventures, but not the type usually described.

We can assume that either the Earth is a *lot* denser than we thought or that we have miscalculated the gravitational constant, in order to explain Earth's current well-known surface gravity of 32 feet per second per second.

Never mind how it formed.

But what would it be like in there?

#1 Dark. Because there's no light, you see.

#2 Hot. The deeper anyone digs or drills, the hotter things get.

That's explicable if the Earth's core is near-molten nickel-iron, kept hot and mushy by constant stirring by the moon. If the Earth is hollow, where is all that heat coming from, or being stored? Toughie. That may be the proof of a solid Earth that is toughest to dispel. In any case, its going to be so hot in there that we can't adventure there, nor will its denizens march out here and battle us.

But let's say its only hot within the crust, and the hollow space is comfortable. And, let's say the heat grows some photo luminescent fungus, because that's convenient. There's a few other problems in there…

No fire. Without gravity hot air doesn't rise, and thus fires smother themselves unless constantly fed with wind. Makes it a little tough to work metal, or even to breath. Maybe there's some kind of wind; I couldn't tell you where the wind comes from, because up here, on the outside, wind comes from sunshine and gravity interacting.

It all comes down to the gravity thing. Star Trek requires warp drive. There's no scientific reason to believe in it, but if you don't, no show. If we can dismiss Newton, et al, and have gravity in there, awesome. But its clearly fantasy, not hard sci fi.

Andrew

marcpa Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 10:24 a.m. PST

Not sure about earth, but many human beings
heads are indeed hollow <VBG>

Personal logo Dances With Words Supporting Member of TMP Fezian27 Aug 2008 10:35 a.m. PST

ok…here's my thoughts on the issue:

-We know there are huge caverns at various places within the earth's crust…(before you get to the mantle)…

-In the movie 'the Core' there was a large 'geode?' actually within the mantle itself…that was fairly large and kept from 'melting' by the density/pressure outside..(it could have formed elsewhere and been 'floating around' for eons)…

-According to the best 'scientific evidence' we have now…(which is only as good as our scientists and measuring devices)…the earth is NOT 'hollow'…but in layers of different density materials…and has a 'solid core' etc.

-I remind folks…that until RADAR scans were made of Venus…approximately 1962? there was STILL debate about whether it was a 'water planet' or not…and the first russian space probe to DIE (two days out from earth)…had a landing probe built for WATER landing…we also found out Venus is rotating backwards, at a different rate for it's 'day' than it's orbital period around the sun…and then…there's MERCURY…which is now 'known' NOT to be tidally 'locked' with it's orbit matching it's 'day'…

and Mercury's farside (when it's 'nite') is the 'coldest place in solar system'…just before 'dawn'…

Heck…'scientists' are still arguing the whole 'planet/Planet' thing….AND didn't believe there could be life on Mars, or even moons of Saturn?

Then along comes 'extremophiles' on EARTH no less…microbes living in solid rock a MILE under the ground…tube worms near smoker vents on bottom of ocean, heat, pressure, sulfuric acid…(even maybe in upper clouds on Venus?)…

What I'm saying is that maybe 'Pellulicar' as ERB 'imagined' it…doesn't exist per se…but till we have 'terranauts'….we might not 'know' for sure for decades????

'There are more things in heaven and EARTH, Horatio!'

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 11:06 a.m. PST

Also, without the spinning molten core of the Earth we don't have a magnetic field and the solar wind would have blown away most of our atmosphere just as it has done to Mars.

Of course you could always argue that the Earth is actually a 'small' Dyson Sphere that was constructed by some long-forgotten race. Gravity generators mounted in the crust greate a normal 1G on both the inside and the outside. Only a modest light source for visibility would be needed inside since there would be very little heat lost. Temperatures could be kept at a level comfortable for unclad Pelucidar babes.

Iguana Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 11:39 a.m. PST

For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky.

jpattern2 Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 11:46 a.m. PST

DWW, you know I love you, but…

-We know there are huge caverns at various places within the earth's crust…(before you get to the mantle)…
Yes, but the crust is only between 3 miles and 30 miles thick, and only makes up about 1% of Earth's volume. Not a good argument for a hollow Earth.
-In the movie 'the Core' . . .
You might as well say, "In the movie 'The Land That Time Forgot' . . .
-According to the best 'scientific evidence' we have now…(which is only as good as our scientists and measuring devices)…the earth is NOT 'hollow'…but in layers of different density materials…and has a 'solid core' etc.
Correct. What other "scientific evidence" would you have us look at, if not the best?
-I remind folks…that until RADAR scans were made of Venus…approximately 1962? there was STILL debate about whether it was a 'water planet' or not…and the first russian space probe to DIE (two days out from earth)…had a landing probe built for WATER landing…we also found out Venus is rotating backwards, at a different rate for it's 'day' than it's orbital period around the sun…and then…there's MERCURY…which is now 'known' NOT to be tidally 'locked' with it's orbit matching it's 'day'…
Yes, we're learning more about a lot of things every day, but the things you cite didn't invalidate entire fields of scientific research, as a hollow Earth would.
and Mercury's farside (when it's 'nite') is the 'coldest place in solar system'…just before 'dawn'…
Incorrect. The coldest known points on Mercury aren't on the farside but at the bottoms of the polar craters, where it can get as low as 90K (-183C or -297F). The coldest known points on Pluto can get down to 33K (-240C or -400F).
Heck…'scientists'
Putting the word in quotes implies that they aren't "real" scientists, which is disingenuous at best.
are still arguing the whole 'planet/Planet' thing….
More of a debate on semantics than physical evidence. A hollow Earth, on the other hand, is *not* just an exercise in nomenclature.
AND didn't believe there could be life on Mars
Actually, many (most?) planetary scientists have always been open to the possibility of life on Mars, which is why every Mars lander looks for evidence for or against.
or even moons of Saturn?
Christiaan Huygens discovered Titan in 1655, and Tethys, Dione, Rhea, Iapetus, Mimas, and Enceladus were all discovered before 1850. Who exactly doesn't believe in the moons of Saturn?
Then along comes 'extremophiles' on EARTH no less…microbes living in solid rock a MILE under the ground…tube worms near smoker vents on bottom of ocean, heat, pressure, sulfuric acid…(even maybe in upper clouds on Venus?)…
Yes, which means there might be life on Venus or Mars or other planets or moons, but that has nothing to do with a hollow Earth. Or is your point that extremophiles weren't discovered until recently, and the same might be true of a hollow Earth? If so, I would again point out that the discovery of those tube worms and microbes didn't invalidate what we already know about biology, whereas the existence of a hollow Earth would violate most of what the human race knows about astronomy, physics, gravity, magnetism, geology, and many other fields.
What I'm saying is that maybe 'Pellulicar' as ERB 'imagined' it…doesn't exist per se…but till we have 'terranauts'….we might not 'know' for sure for decades????
I'm sure, based on my reading and understanding of the science involved.

Mulligan Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 12:15 p.m. PST

All right people, there's only one way to settle this once and for all. We're going to have to send somebody down there to check it out. And there's only one man who's tough enough for the job: Shaft!

Mulligan

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 12:22 p.m. PST

What, there's not a Hindu deity at the center of the earth, throwing switches? As per The Simpsons?

BuckeyeBob27 Aug 2008 12:34 p.m. PST

Per Newton--Someone on the inside of a hollow Earth would not experience an outward pull and could not stand on the inner surface; rather, the theory of gravity implies that a person on the inside would be nearly weightless. This was first shown by Newton, whose shell theorem mathematically predicts a gravitational force of zero everywhere inside a spherically symmetric hollow shell of matter, regardless of the shell's thickness. A tiny gravitational force would arise from the fact that the Earth does not have a perfectly symmetrical spherical shape. The centrifugal force from the Earth's rotation would pull a person (on the inner surface) outwards, but even at the equator this is only 1/300 of ordinary Earth gravity.

The mass of the planet also indicates that the hollow Earth theory is unfeasible. Should the Earth be largely hollow, its mass would be much lower and thus its gravity on the outer surface would be much lower than it currently is.

Besides, everyone knows the earth's center is a chewy tootsie roll filled center.

Personal logo andygamer Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 12:44 p.m. PST

I wonder if they're arguing about this on the Earth double that's on the other side of the Sun so that we can't see it? Excuse me now, I have to go trim my goatee.

Covert Walrus27 Aug 2008 1:31 p.m. PST

Jpattern2, quite a number of people did not believe in the idea of moons around other planets in the solar system in Huygen's time; They reasoned that if such objects existed, they would have no influence upon the actions of men unlike the stars, and therefore could have no astrological purpose, and thus could not exist. I do however think that DWW is referring to the idea of life _UPON_ those moons, and indeed the debate is open and active in that field.

Still, even at the beginning of last century, when the Hollow Earth theory was approaching its zenith, the scientific community was arguing about the nature of the Earth's core; and while no serious scientist suggested it was hollow, one of the world's greatest physicists was actively ignoring all evidence that did not support his theory of a cold central core. Lord Kelvin was absolutely (pun intended ) certain that the core temperature of the Earth was about 120 degrees Celsius at maximum, and all those deep miners that kept saying otherwise couldn' use a thermometer to save their lives. He also used this argument to debunk evolution and continental drift when it came up, as the Earth had not been around long enough or had sufficient heat to fit either theory. ( Lord Kelvin never considered Radioactivity; His greatest admirer also faought his ientire life to debunk that as well, and by the nature of scientific method is remembered for creatign atomic energy – That was the kiwi potato-digger, Rutherford.)

And Andygamer, just to shatter your Gorean dreams ( and those of some acquaintances ), if there was a counter-Earth in our orbit, we would never SEE it, but it would be detectable by it's gravitational effect upon the other planets in the solar system. And we don't.

jpattern2 Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 2:32 p.m. PST

Jpattern2, quite a number of people did not believe in the idea of moons around other planets in the solar system in Huygen's time
Yes, I know, but I think you're right:
I do however think that DWW is referring to the idea of life _UPON_ those moons, and indeed the debate is open and active in that field.
I was mis-reading DWW's post. And, as you say, the debate over life on Saturn's moons, or any other body in the solar system, is definitely still open and active.

La Long Carabine Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 2:36 p.m. PST

Gosh dang it!!! You guys are getting science on my myth and those are two tastes that don't taste great together!!!!

:-) Saw the movie anyway, loads of fun.

LLC aka Ron

jpattern2 Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 2:37 p.m. PST

And Andygamer, just to shatter your Gorean dreams ( and those of some acquaintances ), if there was a counter-Earth in our orbit, we would never SEE it, but it would be detectable by it's gravitational effect upon the other planets in the solar system. And we don't.
Heh, I was 11 in 1969 when the movie "Doppelgänger" or "Journey to the Far Side of the Sun" came out, which hinged on that very premise, and even then I knew that such a counter-Earth would be detectable because of its gravitational effect on other planets. (And that was one of the least of that movie's failings.)

Warrenss2 Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 3:50 p.m. PST

There you guys go… raining on my fantasies of Pellucidar and Dian the Beautiful.

Who can stand in the way of such concrete logic as:

"The world is not hollow but it is flat."

"#1 Dark. Because there's no light, you see." LOL! VERY punny!

"#2 Hot. The deeper anyone digs or drills, the hotter things get." Heading to h#ll, maybe?

And the true clincher… the one that removes any shadow of doubt… the one that smashes all of my dreams… all my deep ingrained fantasies from childhood… "What, there's not a Hindu deity at the center of the earth, throwing switches? As per The Simpsons?"

"And Andygamer, just to shatter your Gorean dreams ( and those of some acquaintances ), if there was a counter-Earth in our orbit, we would never SEE it, but it would be detectable by it's gravitational effect upon the other planets in the solar system. And we don't."

ALASSSSSS…….. SCREAM!!!!! gnashing of teeth… tearing of cloth… rubbing ashes… crying endlessly…

No Dian the Beautiful!!! And now no Gorian pleasure slaves too?!?!?!?!?!? Next you'll be telling me there's no Barssom and no Dejah Thoris!!

Warrenss2 Inactive Member27 Aug 2008 3:51 p.m. PST

oppsie… B-A-R-S-O-O-M! not barssom.

jpattern2 Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 6:28 p.m. PST

Warrenss2, have you been spending time in bars some?

:)

IrrationalDesigns27 Aug 2008 7:23 p.m. PST

Y'know, since the earth rotates, there'd be some simulated gravity on the inside. Probably not a whole lot, but some…

Chris PzTp Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 7:26 p.m. PST

"Here's the biggest con argument of all: Gravity."

HA! Gravitation was invented by the Judeo-Christian conspiration.

There's no such thing as gravity. It's intelligent falling

link

Personal logo RavenscraftCybernetics Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 7:50 p.m. PST

its hollow alright.
trust me,
I have proof.

Personal logo andygamer Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 8:23 p.m. PST

Obviously, evil Covert Walrus from the backwards-going, Earth double has made it to our Earth.

What have you done to good Covert Walrus, you imposter?

Personal logo Condotta Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2008 8:51 p.m. PST

Mulligan, I believe Shaft has already begun his journey…just now about six feet under. He is reporting back that he's unsure about the center of the earth being hollow, but his theory is that earth resembles a human head, so draw your own conclusions.

Covert Walrus27 Aug 2008 10:04 p.m. PST

jpattern2, true enoigh I am afraid . . . but you have to admit, it had some terrific effects shots in it, even cooler than 2001.

Barsoom may well be in another solar system according to some reports from writers . . . As for Gorean pleasure slaves, andygamer, while there is no planet per se, I can actually send you in the direction of some; Which do you prefer, English or Kiwi? ( I have a strange and varied range of acquiantances. . . :)

Good Covert Walrus?!? There are those who suspect he never existed . . . BWA HAH HA HA !!!!! Mine is an _evil_ laugh!

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP28 Aug 2008 5:28 a.m. PST

Besides, everyone knows the earth's center is a chewy tootsie roll filled center.

No! If that ever gets out, we could be licked!

Chris PzTp Supporting Member of TMP28 Aug 2008 6:39 a.m. PST

Seriously though, how would you create a table top that represents the interior of a hollow planet?

Obviously you could represent a lot of rocks and caves and possibly lava flows, but what alternatives would you have to specifically represent a SF hollow planet as opposed to a bunch of caves in a regular 99.99…% solid planet?

It's an interesting question and it seems like someone could get very creative with this.

Commodore Wells 1 Inactive Member28 Aug 2008 6:43 a.m. PST

Of course the Earth's Hollow! Where do you think all the dinosaurs went to?

Personal logo Grand Duke Natokina Supporting Member of TMP28 Aug 2008 1:52 p.m. PST

Warrenss2,
Check out David Hatcher Childress's Book on Lost Cities of North and Central America. Not really scientific, but you might find some of his theories interesting. I think he is very uncritical of his sources. But it is fun reading.
Natokina.

greghallam29 Aug 2008 6:12 a.m. PST

And in answer to answer your question, "Where can I get a roleplaying game set in a hollow Earth", I refer you to
Hollow Earth Expedition, a great pulp 30's rpg.
link

Oh, that wasn't the question ???

Warrenss2 Inactive Member29 Aug 2008 6:42 a.m. PST

Natokina, thanks… I'll check it out.

I wonder how this Hollow Earth Expedition turned out?
link

Maybe they found the earth was hollow… returned and made a RPG about it?!? ;-)

Warrenss2 Inactive Member29 Aug 2008 6:46 a.m. PST

Ummm… The Phoenix Science Foundation (from the above link)… didn't MacGyver work for them?

Or was that just "The Phoenix Foundation"?

Norscaman Inactive Member29 Aug 2008 11:09 a.m. PST

As long as you suspend most of the rules of physics, the Earth can be both hollow AND flat. All it requires is a rule change. Enjoy!

mhauck Inactive Member07 Sep 2008 8:46 a.m. PST

Two interesting sources on this subject – Hollow Earth by David Standish and Subterranean Worlds by Peter Fitting

Personal logo Grand Duke Natokina Supporting Member of TMP07 Sep 2008 2:00 p.m. PST

Hey Guys,
I think it was this thread I was on last week when somebody posted a link to a site that had 25mm Graboids from the TREMORS movies. Can anybody point me thee?
Natokina.

Mephistopheles Inactive Member08 Sep 2008 7:44 a.m. PST

I just can't believe the way you are all just ignoring the evidence. Yes, the Earth is hollow, and if you dig down deep enough you can hear people screaming in Hell:

link

I also understand that if you listen closely enough, you can definitely make out Woodrow Wilson's voice.

jpattern2 Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2008 9:57 a.m. PST

Yeah, Meph, I love stories like that, both for their creativity, and for demonstrating just what total idiots and/or charlatans some "men of the cloth" are.

Snopes calls the shots: link

Although, personally, I think the whole "drilling through to Hell" idea could make for a pretty cool gaming scenario. Do you hear the voices and decide to get the Hell (pardon the pun) out of Dodge? Or do you stay and try to cap the well? Maybe Constantine or Hellboy or some other supernatural investigator shows up to help (or hinder) you.

evilmike Inactive Member19 Oct 2008 11:55 p.m. PST

Check out Rudy Rucker's "The Hollow Earth".

He claims it's based on an actual manuscript he found in the Library of Congress…..

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2008 4:35 a.m. PST

Nakotina,

Is this what you were asking about?

link

CC

Warbeads Inactive Member02 Nov 2008 7:52 p.m. PST

Mephistopheles,

Not all of us evangelical Christians are that "willing to believe" just because it "…was reported…" by "somebody who was there." Some of these guys would be working for the Main Stream Media if it paid better (in ego strokes, and sometimes, money.)

Actually that doesn't sound like whatever hell is "supposed" to sound like…which is not spelled out in scripture actually. Sounds like a rocking good party or a local version of Mardi Gras or something equally chaotic and raucous. Some of those voices sound like they were having a rowdy but enjoyable time.

Puhleeeze, YouTube Video Dude, who ever you are, go back to (a real) seminary and get some serious theological training… Even without Snopes that story has more holes then Swiss cheese.

Sigh, some people…barely qualify as…human…

Gracias,

Glenn

crhkrebs Inactive Member04 Nov 2008 11:27 a.m. PST

Love the link from WarrenSS2.

There is a new expedition leader to the center of the Earth. Here is the first paragraph from his website:

Paranormal Internet talk radio for the scientific mind. X-Squared Radio discusses the mysteries of science as well as paranormal science with the best guests in the world. In here, the results are always positive. In the internet talk radio sea of tinkling sounds, one voice is standing out as a Renaissance man with a powerful knowledge of both science and spirituality. Your host, Brooks A. Agnew is a physicist with a passion for exploring the truth of the universe and of the Earth. This paranormal internet talk radio program is different from anything you have ever heard. We bring you the very best authorities in the most cutting edge subjects of science and world mysteries and ask the most far-reaching questions. Don't give up on the race of man yet.

Yes, science where the results are always "positive"! We are lucky Dr. Agnew is a physicist with a passion for exploring the truth. (As opposed to all those other physicists!) I'm not giving up on the race of Man yet, but I have my doubts about a race of intelligent Man. Good luck with finding your "hole" Dr. Agnew.

Ralph

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