"Ancients Skirmish Rules" Topic

I'm just looking for an excuse to purchase some Warlord games Romans and Celts so I'd like to know what rules folks are using to play out skirmish battles for the ancient world. I already own WAB and I'd like to try something more geared to a pure skirmish game. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Try "Mayhem: Warrior Kings" by Two Hour Wargames. You can get it free from link

You ca get it free from the Free Wargames Rules website…

I got Warlord Games Celts to play with loTR.

LoTR makes a good set of rules for Ancients to medieval skirmish

Best ever: Arnold Hendrick's "Sword & Spear: Individual Man-to-man Combat in Ancient and Medieval Times" (Milgamex: 1975). Long OOP.

Allen

Depending on how detailed you want to go you could look at some RPG sets, games like GURPS have a very detailed combat system that makes a good (if detailed) skirmish game.

Agree with aecurtis. Still have my copy, but have not played for years. Ahead of it's time.

Is Arnold Hendrick still around? He wrote a number of excellent rules.

Dan

I think so, Dan. He's been doing computer games for years.

Allen

Sword & Spear was the first ancients ruleset that I ever played, and I would agree with Allen.

The main limitation that I found way back then was that there were no rules for moving in ("micro-")formation. I suppose that one could roll the movement for every figure in a line, and have them move at the speed of the slowest, but that seemed cumbersome.

IIRC, movement was by initiative, regardless of side, which could disrupt formations (and plans).

The other quirk is that infantry were mounted on square bases with a corner forward. However, some mapping of the left and right front sides of a diagonal square base to a transverse square base might work.

how the combat work in the sword & spear ruleset?

The corner forward was to made the left and right sides/flanks be very clear. Your shield covered the left front and your weapon was in the right front. Very nice.

Tight game.

Also liked his battle set of ancients rules, but now I'll have to go look to get the name.

A great author who's not gotten his share of "glory" in the hobby. Rank him and Don Lowry as two of the three (Gary G being the other) that moved the hobby from Jack Scruby's rules to the modern world in the 1970s.

Dan

Yes, I know what the corner forward was for, and it works well for Sword & Spear, but that sort of basing is not very consistent with most other basing systems out there.

Best ever: Arnold Hendrick's "Sword & Spear: Individual Man-to-man Combat in Ancient and Medieval Times" (Milgamex: 1975). Long OOP.

Milgamex other ancients rules for big battles was very well regarded back in the 70s, but it went OOP *very* quickly and is as rare as hen's teeth to find. Even if just for reference, I'd love to see these available as reprints.

A great author who's not gotten his share of "glory" in the hobby. Rank him and Don Lowry as two of the three (Gary G being the other) that moved the hobby from Jack Scruby's rules to the modern world in the 1970s.

I would argue that Phil Barker played an big role in that process, too. His first edition ancients rules came out in 1969 and by the mid 70s, they had dominated ancients wargaming. Milgamex rules didn't make the splash they needed to survive and flourish because the period was dominated by WRG, which were the standard for competition internationally.

Getting back to skirmish rules, I second Mayhem:Warrior Kings. Pig Wars is due for a re-release and provides a good game (better with more players). Their is also the Sword in Gaul, Larry Brom's rewrite of Sword and the Flame for well Romans in Gaul.

You can get Pig Wars from the author as a PDF if interested.

Dan

Dan: thanks for explaining "corner forward". I didn't know what it meant.

We SYW types have to help each other there Der Alte Fritz (smile).

Great set of rules, really made for man-to-man combat. Most likely no more than a few dozen figures in a game (I'd guess 3-6 per player). Covered ancients up to early firearm weapons (and fantasy).

Dan

Pig Wars? What can i say? One of the better dark Age skirmish games out there. It can be used for a good many eras…including Ancient combat.

Mayhem Warrior Heroes or perhaps the newer version Monjoie. Monjoie advertises massed combat and skirmish combat alike but it does not work well for massed combat. Skirmish games include rules for sieges as well. So you could storm a small keep and it would probably do ok.

Song of Blades and Heroes is a very fun game. It will set you back $5 USD for the PDF. It is a fantasy game but it has been used for Vikings vs Picts pretty successfully.

If you like WAB, why not try Mordheim? It is free to download and contains most ancient/medieval weapons, if you search through the various Gang lists.

Great. I have another quest. I really want to read Sword & Spear now.

It rated 10 on boardgamegeek.com (with one rating…). It's mentioned in lists here and there around the internet, but that's it.

Anyone in California own a copy? Or is there are detailed description somewhere?

I actually have a zany interest in 60s and 70s era rules…

Andrew

Arnold Hendrick? I worked with him for a while, and while he's fantastically good company (I'd game with him any time), I would expect any rules written by him to be somewhat, well, "encumbered" by tables and modifiers.

"Age of the Trebuchet" for the LoTR game seems like a good ancients skirmish game, unless you're one of those people who hates the LoTR game.

yes, I am very intrigued by that ruleset, too

"Anyone in California own a copy?"

Yes, but San Bernardino county is a little bit far, Andrew!

I still have Minifigs Haradrim based for Sword and Spear…

Allen

Hendrick's mass battle rules were "Ancient Warfare":

link

What's really sad is that from the label, I think I know whose copy that was!!!

"Rank him and Don Lowry as two of the three (Gary G being the other)…"

That's an ironic juxtaposition. Hendrick panned D&D in an early review, and Gygax went straight to personal attacks on the front page of "Strategic Review"! In the next column, Gygax went on to tout the forthcoming "Classical Warfare", which we no doubt all remember as the ancients rules instant superstar of the '70s!

Don Lowry, of course, is a fine fellow.

Allen

I am curious, is the combat in sword & lance very detailed?

Ah, but do folks still remember "1944" and play the rules?

Dan

"I am curious, is the combat in sword & lance very detailed"

You mean Sword and Spear?

Well, first there are a lot of charts. These are true skirmish for "2-6 men" per player. Combat depends on what weapons are being used. Stats are quickness, resistance to injury (RTI), thrust/cut, impact, breaks (weapon breaking), reload (missiles). It has Impact Moves for charging.

Combat is by choosing 2 "chits". One for weapons use (cut, thrust, hesitate, withdraw) and one melee tactic (1, 2, 3, 4). Players choose and lay them down upside down next to the minis. Turn the chits over and look up a matrix and find out who hits who. Then roll for protection and apply damage to the man's RTI.

The rules have lots of optional rules and bits in the back for fantasy figs. And a sample scenario.

My set is a bit ragged, and I am quite upset that I have lost the QRS and other sheets that came with the set (including the chit sheet).

Great game.

G^is,
JohnG

thanks a lot, platiplus. I am always checking for detailed skirmish rulesets

We used to game Sword & Spear with 1/72nd plastic ancients conversions, and tended to expand our forces quite a bit beyond 2-6 figures a side, but I expect that the rules would be great for the newer 1/32nd scale plastic ancients, especially on a large table.

The GW Lord of the Rings rules make an excellent historical set suitable for ancients all the way to early medieval.

Just to say the link to Try "Mayhem: Warrior Kings" by Two Hour Wargames. You can get it free from link

Doesn't work

The Sword in Gaul has the right tables to play TSATF with Romans and Celts. Easy, simple, and one of the most popular skirmish rules systems out there.

Rick