"Should Historicon Become the National Convention?" Topic

Historicon is the main convention of HMGSEAST.
It is the largest con only because nobody else bothers to put in a bigger one.
My only reaction to those who live in St. Louis or Denver and want to host Historicon is KEEP YOUR COTTON PICKING FINGERS OFF MY CONVENTION AND START YOUR OWN!!!

It is NOT a national convention. It is a large local one. Let's keep it that way.

I agree with John. Historicon should remain local. This was my first Historicon and, clearly, the facilities were inadequate for even the local attendees. On Saturday morning all the women's rest rooms were transformed into men's rooms. I would hate to see this occur at a national level.

Seriously, I do agree that stepping up and promoting a local convention is the way to go. In Chicago, we have Little Wars and, now, Adepticon for historical wargaming and I, honestly, wouldn't trade either of those for Historicon.

Dave

As an outsider I see Historicon as the Mecca of conventions. I hope one day I can go.

John,
to the best of my knowledge it is HMGS E guys that bring this up every year?

So you maybe yelling at the wrong people.

Granted, the Host is a dump, but my wife and kids enjoyed Lancaster. Last year, we stayed at the Steamboat Inn. The Steamboat was clean-and the rooms were great. However, it really is a pain to have to lug my stuff back and forth from the hotel. It wouldn't be such a big deal, if it were easy to find parking. I couldn't make it this year. I don't know if they solved the parking problem. Also, if you have to go the bathroom-it's nice if you stay on site. However, the rooms that I saw were horrid at the Host. (mold and such) It's too bad there isn't another facility within Lancaster that could host the convention. I really enjoyed the city.

A rose by any other name…

…still smells like overflowing toilets? I don;t understand.

Allen

I see no need for a national convention. Nor have I read in theses comments a good reason for a national convention. HMGSE runs Historicon, an eastern convention with national in appeal. Historicon at the Lancaster has grown to about as big as it is going to get. If what I hear is correct attendance has remained about the same for the last few years. Eventually the attendance will probably begin to decline if it remains at the Lancaster.

If HMGSE wants Historicon to grow it has to change it's venue. It does not have to move to a major city. But, it should be close to a national airport. For example, Harrisburg is not a major city but does have a national airport.

I was under the impression that this year was the last year the convention will be held at the Lancaster. That Historicon would move. Nevertheless, this is HMGSE's convention and they need to decide what they want from their convention. Personally, I would like to hear from the membership of HMGSE.

If Little Wars convention was during the late spring to early fall, I would find their location more conducive for a convention of national scope. It is held by a major hub in an excellent hotel. Being from Seattle, I would prefer Chicago over Lancaster any day. So the folks at HMGSE need to make up their minds as to what they want to do.

Rich

Dave1138:
In Chicago, we have Little Wars and, now, Adepticon for historical wargaming and I, honestly, wouldn't trade either of those for Historicon.

I thought Adepticon was just GW stuff? If there's historical gaming going on there, I have to check it out next year…

Rich, you are hearing from many HMGS members although I obviously don't know everyone behind the screen name.One of my beefs with some of my wargame bretheren is idea that bigger is better and a large national show would be a money maker. Now HMGS can't make more than a certain amount of money by tax law so I wondering who it is that is going to rake in the profits. I have an idea and a few have been outspoken about it. But with that comes a lot of baggage and expense that with all due respect, I didn't sign up for. I signed up for a couple of wargame conventions a year at a "nice" venue (your nice may vary), at a reasonable cost to me, not terribly far from home ( now 3 hrs) and in relatively safe location where I and family members could feel comfortable. And for the last 16-17? years or so, the Lancaster Host has met that need. Do I think it needs renovation: Yes. Do I love everything about it: No. But it fills the basic points I have made for my own comfort. So I don't have this compelling need to move a great convention to a more expensive area. I'm already in a resort area with higher prices; why would I want to go to a major city with all the headaches that entails? Call it National or local East Con. My needs are fairly simple and Lancaster fills the bill for me.

"I thought Adepticon was just GW stuff? If there's historical gaming going on there, I have to check it out next year…"

Last year we had a bunch of Warhammer Historical games including a very cool Chicago Prohibition game (I ran this one, so I'm biased when I say it was very cool), a boatload of Legends of the High Seas pirate games run by the book's author Tim Kulinski and some big Macedonian Successor participation games.

There were also a fair amount of Old West shoot-out games.

That was in addition to the two Ancients tournaments, a singles and doubles.

In fairness, it was all Warhammer Historical rules as it is still basically a GW convention. However, this side of the convention seems to be expanding, so if any of those things sound interesting I'm sure they'll be back.

Dave

Rich Knapton –

Just FYI, Historicon 2009 will be at the Lancaster Host, while for 2010 it is an 80% chance it will move. Baltimore is the Leading contender for that move.

I do like your quote; "HMGSE runs Historicon, an eastern convention with national in appeal."

JT

vonLoudon 31 Jul 2008 4:07 a.m. PST wrote:

……One of my beefs with some of my wargame bretheren is idea that bigger is better and a large national show would be a money maker.

I do not think the board is looking at it that way at all. The benchmark of a successful show is the attendance and quality of the convention. They do not want to lose money and what to keep the costs down for vendors and attendees.

Now HMGS can't make more than a certain amount of money by tax law so I wondering who it is that is going to rake in the profits.

There is no provisions that state what a NFP 501 C corporation can make. In reality a non for profit has to make money in order to do those things it is chartered to do (promote the hobby).

VR
James Mattes

James, if you'll recall at the demise of MWAN the last few issues had articles describing the grandeur of a bigger, greater, more money making-er wargame convention. I have seen no evidence that that particular idea has died. It tends to rear its ugly head in these threads from time to time and that's okay. But that's really a minority view, that still seems to persist. Add the rumor of moves to King of Prussia, Fall In at Timonium you can see where a person might be thinking what's going on?
As for the non profit thing the amount of money is not specified but our treasurer has made recent comments in a report about what we can use it for and what areas really get IRS scrutiny. There are those who are connected to our organization that believe if we spend more on conventions, in a presumed better setting that will accommodate every ones pet peeves, that more money will flow in to HMGS and those who are affiliated with the hobby as well. Again to me the minority view.
Again I support a necessary move of the convention if we have actually outgrown the Host, subject to debate right now, and I support a move to a location where again the price is reasonable and makes sense in light of our mission to put on a couple of nice conventions and do our educational and charitable functions. If the move in my judgement doesn't meet those requirements, I can 1) stay away which is not very likely or 2) day trip or one night it. Too many day trippers is going to hurt the venue hotel and its surrounding neighbors, don't know if that is a deal breaker to them or whether that will actually come about. Lots of unknowns here.

"HMGSE runs Historicon, an eastern convention with national in appeal."
-Why not say international?

"KEEP YOUR COTTON PICKING FINGERS OFF MY CONVENTION AND START YOUR OWN!!!
It is NOT a national convention. It is a large local one. Let's keep it that way."
-Exactly

"…historical miniature gaming and military history>>'
-The phrase that is in the charter yet some pretend other wise.

Historicon is a convention. The fact that people come from all over the country, and some foreign countries, is irrelevant really. It is a convention run by a regional organziation, staffed and attended by people from all over the place. Whether you call it regional (whatever that means?), or national, or international frankly doesn't matter. It is the larget historical miniature wargaming convention in the country, plain and simple.

Don't quite understand why this is on the British board, but, for what its worth, Historicon is probably the only US convention I know much about, so its probably the only one Im ever likely to go to…Having said that, the US is a big place, claiming "National" satus is a bit pointless…either you are a big show or you are not. Here in the UK Salute might be the largest show, but they (rightly) wouldn't claim to be the national show. Folks from all of 100 miles away would take umbrage.
Making something "National" just sounds like an excuse for those who want to be on comittees to give themselves a little title and create some sort of exclusivity.

I agree with christot 100%.

I think the problem with labeling it a national show is not that it's exclusive but that it must then be inclusive and thus appeal to the most people possible.

"ITS A LOCAL SHOW, FOR LOCAL PEOPLE, THERES NOTHING FOR YOU , HERE."

Historicon is probably the most successful convention that our niche in the hobby has. That success is attributed to the people who volunteer to do all of the convention work (registration desk, logistics helpers, managers) as well as to a ready pool of game judges who, year after year, put on a large number of high quality games.

I don't think that you could move Historicon to another region in the USA and replicate its results unless you had all of the same volunteers and game judges moving with the convention.

Historicon is our de-facto national convention. It draws many gamers from across the country as well as a growing international contingent.

Why mess with success?

The original question was should Historicon be a national convention. The knee-jerk response by many was no this is our convention. We don't want other to get their grubby hands on it. I have to smile because this has nothing to do with sponsoring a National convention. HMGSE could very well sponsor a national convention at a location of their choice every year. It just can't host a national convention where Historicon is located now. Lancaster is simply too difficult to get to to truly develop into a natinal convention and the Host is simply an inadequate site for such a showcase as a national convention.

I was there in 2007 and was very disapointed by the visual quality of the games. I don't know about this year; I didn't go. If it is similar to 2007, then it lacks quality to be a national showcase. So, to the question should Historicon become a natinal convention, the answer is no. It simply does not meet the requirements to be a national convention.

I'll tell you what Historicon does have is excellent people running the society and the convention. I doubt there is any organization in the US that can beet the quality of the leadership that HMGSE has. There is no doubt that you have the personel to run a national convention.

I think that the leadership of any of the HMGS organizations has an obligation to help provide their gamers with the best gaming experience at a reasonable price. I think the leadership at HMGSE knows that and takes that seriously. So the question becomes can the gaming experience for members of HMGSE be enhanced by the region hosting a national convention; understanding that hosting a national convention means a number of changes? With regards to becoming a national convention, the question is will it improve the gaming experience of the membership of HMGSE? I happen to believe it will. I think a properly located position and improved visual appeal of games will improve the gaming experience. But I'm not an HMGSE member.Now you can achieve thse goals without hosting a national convention but why?

Rich

I have attended( from Calif) for the last ten years. I have also attended other major shows( ie Salute , Triplesetc).
For playing games, hanging out for DAYS( almost a week)with nothing to do but, play,shop, play more, HistoriCon is the best! The British shows I have attended do put on higher quality games, but fewer, and for just a day or two.
HistoriCon is a HMGSE Con so it should stay that.
Moving it; A hard question. LOTS of people will NOT attend big Metro ( Baltimore, DC) area events. Hotels cost more, not on site of games, parking costs more, Crime areas etc
Clif

i agree with the dumbskull
there are a lot of folks that wont go to the massive types of cons (origins) becuz it aint that damned friendly
we move
will the new joint allow late night drinking at tables
i doubt it
one of the main draws is the friendship that have developed over tables of dice
a new place wont allow the good bottle of bourban placed on the table to share

brew

I live in California and attend H-Con most every year. It is fine the way it is, although it's a pain in the butt to get to. Get me a shuttle from BWI and I am happy (there is excellent train service from Philadelphia, but then you have to fly into the Philly airport, possible the worst airport outside rural Khazakstan).

The OFM may not think my opinion counts, but I AM a dues paying member of HMGSE.

real swine brings up another good reason for moving: keep the drunks out of the lobby. That's why god invented alleys.

Rich

pointyjavelin 05 Aug 2008 5:50 a.m. PST
"ITS A LOCAL SHOW, FOR LOCAL PEOPLE, THERES NOTHING FOR YOU , HERE."

It is, as Bob likes to say

"The best four days in Historical Miniature Gaming"

Personally I like:

"The largest Historical Miniature Gaming Convention in the Free World"

But that is just me.
VR
James Mattes

James thanks for being the spokes persn for the HMGSE with regards to all these posting about Historicon. Not only on this topic but on the other topics as well. It has to be tough fielding all these questions. I appreciate your efforst.

Rich

James Mattes said:

"It is, as Bob likes to say
'The best four days in Historical Miniature Gaming'"

Actually, I don't say that, as the above is too close to the GenCon promo line. The real HISTORICON line is…

"Historical Miniature Gaming's Biggest Summer Vacation!"

But… it really is the four best days in Historical Miniature Gaming as well. ;)

Regards,
Bob Giglio, Convention Director – HISTORICON
historicon.org

Typical Yanks (Always on about SIZE)….. and WHY is this on the Brit Board?

In answer to the original post, I thought Historicon is "THE" National Convention in the USA, at least as far as historical gaming goes.

Could it become "THE" national convention in the USA? Certainly so, but not as long as it is restricted to "historical gaming".

The USA needs a "Gaming Convention". One that does not cater to one venue but which caters to gaming; period.

Then, and only then, will we see "The Event".

- Greg

Typical Yanks (Always on about SIZE)….. and WHY is this on the Brit Board?

Size? Well I thought that's what women like. And why on the Brit board? Purely altruistic. It's there to let you appreciate what you have.

The US needs a Gaming Convention? I though that's what Origins is all about. But it's not what we are talking about here. Here we are talking about a National Historical Miniature Convention run by the HMGSE as part of it's convention offerings.

Rich

Jed H R 14 Aug 2008 10:24 a.m. PST
Typical Yanks (Always on about SIZE)….. and WHY is this on the Brit Board?

I did not start the thread but I can tell you from a HMGS point of view the UK is an area we are strongly courting. Have you seen WI of late? We are in there often the past two years. Flights to BWI from the UK are cheap!

VR
James Mattes

Oh, great, make Historicon even bigger! Then setting up and running the Flea Market will rob us of what little mental stability Matthew and I have left.