"Should Historicon Become the National Convention?" Topic

I've already commented on this on the If you move it thread. This is not my understanding of the purpose of our HMGS-East conventions. Is it yours? Fire Away.

Think international!

Think extraterrestrial.

And pandimensional.

Pantemporal.

Hold it virtually, everyone has and avatar and all that

It is

If it goes national then it will probably start to travel nationally then we in the east will have nothing.

Absolutely outside of the charter fo the organization. I say no, it should not become a National Convention. If they want to make it so, they should ask for a referendum of the membership, or start a new convention to be the National Show.

Define "national". As it is, people attend from all over the U.S. and some from abroad. It is, in effect, a national convention.

Is your question more "Should it be moved to a more central site"?

Some people already think of Historicon as a national show. that is how I rate it in my ledgers. International?, vendors mainly.

Would a more central location result in a higher turnout? Along the East coast is where the highest population density is. The bigger cons tend to have a wider target audience. I would welcome a National con, but I am sure that it would be quite a risk for the organizers until the con got established.

According to James at Historicon, we need to focus on making the convention more accessible and more attractive to people from around the nation.

My opinion of the charter is that we need to make it the most attractive and accessible to people on the East coast, it is a convention run by HMGS East after all. If people from California want to come, brilliant, I would love to see them, and hope they enjoy themselves, but I don't think we need to focus on what would make the show easiest for them to attend, that's all…

Popcorn, anyone?

I believe that at this time, Historicon represents the pinnacle of US gaming conventions. This despite the mediocore venue and difficulty/expense getting there from almost anywhere.

However, it is a HMGS-East con where a lot of other people attend. It would not take much effort to make Historicon a true national event and maybe even an international event. However, that is a HMGS-East decision to make.

Should they decide not to do so, then my hope is that HMGS-Great Lakes would take up the challenge as their cons seem to be gaining in attendance and number of vendors.

Then the question becomes if the Great Lakes/whoever, manages to put on a true national convention what happens to Historicon without all the people from the other regions?

Still it's their decision to make. I'll deal with their decision with my attendance/money or lack thereof.

It already is the U.S. national historic convention whether it has that title or not. So why go through the political BS of trying to bestow an "official" title on it?

Think soap and deodorant

It is the De Facto National Con.

Yes, and many esteemed members do need to remember their soap and deodorant, it gets hot and somewhat smelly in the Host ;-D

"If it goes national then it will probably start to travel nationally then we in the east will have nothing."

I think it IS the "National" convention and should stay right where it is (or thereabouts), but this statement ignores Fall In, Cold Wars, Southern Front, Hurricon, and all the other great cons that occur on the Eastern seaboard. We in the east are rich with options!

It would be nice if it was held in a larger city with an airport. It would not have to leave the region and more people from the south and west could attend. I can only see this as a win-win for the majority.

Why on British Wargaming page?

I'd like to attend, but I am discouraged by both the location/venue and the "insider" attitude of the organizers.

Given it's success so far in a dismal hotel tucked away in a corner of Pennsylvania, I think it would be a money maker for someone who was willing to sponsor it at a real convention center in a larger city.

I agree with SMPress on this one.

Historicon is what it is because of where it is and the populations of gamers close enough to make it there regularly. Not because it is magic. There are great shows all over the country. If they are smaller it is just because of demographics. Move Historicon to one of those locations and it will get similar attendance – probably a little more out of name recognition but that's it.

The US is not like the UK. There is nowhere you can put a show that almost everyone in the country can get there on a reasonable train ride.

Well from this side of the Atlantic Historicon is considered the biggest and most popular wargames convention in the US as well as Salute is here in Europe. Should be in New York or Boston there could be also someone from the Old Continent, but I guess there would be different costs and our is a niche hobby after all.

What is in a name?

Great Lakes main convention event is ORIGINS with perhaps a small nod to the even larger TGWAG event GENCON. There was once a notion to unite HISTORICON and ORIGINS but that met with widespread anger. HISTORICON was started because we couldn't come to terms with organizations running the general conventions.

If there is a valid prospect for an HISTORICON sized HM convention either in the MIDWEST,Colorado, or the Pacific Coast it can best be proven by the local chapter doing it.

The HISTORICON on roller skates or in my back yard movement implies only that HMGS EAST should take its treasury and run a few financially catastrophic conventions closer to the proponent of the fiasco.

Pat Condray (WKPP)

SMPress 30 Jul 2008 5:51 a.m. PST wrote:
Absolutely outside of the charter fo the organization. I say no, it should not become a National Convention.

The charter is HMGS not HMGS-East. I quote:

"The purpose of the Corporation is exclusively for educational and charitable purposes, including, for such purposes, the making of distributions to organizations that qualify as exempt organizations under Section 501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 (or the corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law) and the running of educational programs promoting historical miniature gaming and military history

I have the charter here as well but it is in a box but will dig it out if requested.

On a totally different note Andy how many painted 40mm ACW do you have now? Would like to run Hoods atk at the club before Sept.
VR
James Mattes

In my view, HMGS should stay true to the charter and the mission statement. However, it could still be an "east" show that caters to a national audience. As said above, if it weren't 90 miles away from any decent sized metropolitan area, it might garner more people and elevate its status as a con.

I've never been to CW or FI, but understand that those cons could keep the more intimate flavor by staying where they are.

As for the convention traveling around HMGS does not have the logistical support to make that an option at this time. 10 years from now? I would not put odds on it.
VR
James Mattes

It seems to have that de facto function already, so I don't know why one would need to formalize it.

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.com

It can't be all that important. I haven't been since '84.

Hold it in a venue suitable for the claims to pre-eminence, and you might see me there again.

Allen

It is the size it is because of its location. As said before, a lot of people can make it without traveling 'too far', although a lot of people (myself included) have traveled a long way to get there. Moving it off the East Coast, which would be expected of a 'National' convention at least now and then makes it a long trip for most people who would attend. The local attendance, wherever it was, couldn't make up for that IMHO. Making it National is irrelevant to the issue of the Host, which will be dragged out for a good beating at least once a year and then put back into the grave. Poor Nobbins, yer was a good horse in yer day.

American innit? So why should a UK gamer like me care what they do with it?

My attendance in the past has been, in part, because of the non-metropolitan location. Since I have decided not to fly any longer drivable access is the most important aspect and virtually no American city, especially in the East, has that.
I like the Host although it must be a nightmare, as noted by many, for the mobility impaired.

Well the five attendees in my party drove 1919 miles total there and back including a side trip to Aberdeen Proving Ground. Two years ago our side trip was to Gettysburg.

We view it from here as a National Convention. Origins, GenCon, & Historicon. Those are the big three we attend. After the last two Origins we attended were huge disappointments, we have virtually sliced that one from the list leaving only GenCon and Historicon on our list of National conventions.

I encountered people from MO, IL, OH, IN, CA, AZ, CT, GA, TN, KS, PA, MD, MI, WI, VA, NC, VT, Vancouver, BC, Great Britain, New Zealand, and Australia.

That is attendees from over 30% of the States that I encountered alone, not to mention three whole different countries. Seems at least National to me.

I don't think it would have to be moved out of the Eastern Seaboard to be considered "Officially" "National." If being centrally located geographically determined the "National" status of a convention, I would be lucky enough to have most of them near home!

I think a move for Historicon to a major city with a major airport would be enough. Baltimore, Philidelphia, Pittsburgh, any of those would be cool and might help more people attend due to the major airports.

Just my thoughts…

There were 4 of us that drove 1725 miles one-way to Lancaster from Denver, Colorado. It was a 28-hour drive with stopping only to get gas, food, and change drivers. I drove twice for about 3.5 hours each session.

To us Historicon is THE convention because of the size, the dealers, and the attendees. The only reason that we drive is that we don't trust the airlines to keep our stuff safe. Gasoline was under $4 USD per gallon. The highest gasoline price was in Illinois.

James,

Sorry, no painted 40mm, I have lots of unpainted ones in that scale, but I have been focusing on my 20mm figs as of late, more versatile in the end. I may keep my 40's for skirmish gaming, or I may unload them, I will get with you first if I do…

As to the East Charter, I would consider it implicit, being that there are numerous HMGS's around the country that our goal is to do those things for the East area. If the BOD wants to do things for the nation, I suppose that's their business, but I don't want to have anything to do with it. I am a member of East because I live in the East. When I was in Texas, I was a member of Tornado Alley, and a member of South when I was in Atlanta, because they did things in my area. As a member of East, I would expect them to do things for the interest of members in the East. Should those things also work for members of other areas, brilliant, but again, I don't think there is any reason to go out of the way to accommodate them; they have their own organizations for that purpose…

Andy

Historicon should be left as it is. It should not be moved or "fixed" in any way.

However, HMGS East should run a sister con at a larger less moldy site with adequate room and parking space in a major city (like Baltimore). If both Cons are run on the same days then it is even better. The young whippersnappers with black mold allergies are happy and the greying grognards are happy.

<<As said above, if it weren't 90 miles away from any decent sized metropolitan area, it might garner more people and elevate its status as a con>>

Nope, only Philadelphia, Baltimore, Reading, Allentown, Harrisburg and all the associated metro areas of 10 million plus. Lancaster county alone has over 500,000 people, add in the surrounding counties it is smack dab in the middle of over 2,000,000+ people within 30-40 miles. Not too many areas of the country that can boast that population density!

What WeeSparky stated but if you go central then Kansas City, MO is central!

Historicon is an HMGS-East convention that has grown into a national event. IMO, it would be up to the parent HMGS organization (if one exists) to organize a separate national convention. Or, for GAMA to try to make Origins a national miniatures convention for both historical and fantasy/sci-fi.

Shagnasty 30 Jul 2008 9:25 a.m. PST wrote:
…drivable access is the most important aspect and virtually no American city, especially in the East, has that.

If you come from the north highway 83 dumps you off a few blocks from the center. From the Northeast 395 takes you within 4 blocks. from 295 it dumps you four or five stop lights from the convention center. Seems pretty easy to me.
VR
James Mattes

I would say that it is the defacto national, not that the title is necessary or means anything.

Origins Game Fair is the National "Gaming" convention, or maybe GenCon (have not been there). OGF says they most historical miniatures events. Can that be true?

Historicon is as big and as national as it needs to be. Maybe closer to airport would be nice for those who do not bring much or leave with much. An urban setting with loading docks and shuttle buses does not seen friendly to me. I like a convention in the hotel, or very close walking. One downer of H'con/Cold Wars is the terrible decline of the nearby Congress Passport Motel.

So keep Historicon in a friendly setting, but maybe rent a shuttle bus to the Baltimore or Harrisburg airport to help folks fly in and not be stuck with extra ground costs. Run it 3-4 times a day, Wed – Sunday (more on sunday as people leave.

For whatever its worth, I would point out that board members come (and have come from) all over the country, not just in the "East."

The HMGSE cons are completely dependent on the great volunteers who actually run them. I have no idea where they all come from, but where ever one is held, you'll need them as much as any particular facility.

Hi

Origins and GenCon have minor miniatures participation. but huge attendance.

The lack of minis at those are primarily the problem that the guys from far away come to be entertained rather than put something on.

This is true with all conventions. What happens there is based on who is willing to show up and do it.

R

"<<As said above, if it weren't 90 miles away from any decent sized metropolitan area, it might garner more people and elevate its status as a con>>

Nope, only Philadelphia, Baltimore, Reading, Allentown, Harrisburg and all the associated metro areas of 10 million plus. Lancaster county alone has over 500,000 people, add in the surrounding counties it is smack dab in the middle of over 2,000,000+ people within 30-40 miles. Not too many areas of the country that can boast that population density!"

Philly and Baltimore are considered major metropolitan areas with an international airport, train stations and major bus depots. They are also about 90 miles from Lancaster.

I would not consider Reading, Allentown or Harrisburg major cities at all. In fact, I bet most people would be hard-pressed to point them out on a map (or even name what state they're in), PA residents aside (and no offense to PA residents).

I might have a different viewpoint than some. There are more people in my neighborhood than there are in Lancaster County. The population of my city is twice the size of Maryland and nearly comparable with the entire state of Pennsylvania.

Origins used to have far more "general" minis gaming. It really started to get bad until HMGS-GL stepped in, first committing to running lots of historical games, then to take over the minis hall entirely. They've done a great job!

It WOULD be the national convention … if it hadn't been for that stupid Louisiana Purchase and the ill-considered Mexican War. which caused the nation to grow beyond the Eastern time zone!

In other words, a "national" convention held in one place every year, especially at one end of the country, just aint gonna be "national."