"Royal marines vs highwaymen?" Topic

First, a warning; the die-hard button-counters among you may want to steer clear, lest aneurysms result.

Anyway, I bought a load of Black Scorpion Miniatures' Royal marines to use in Legends of the High Seas pirtates games. At the same time, a friend has some highwaymen miniatures. My question is, if I squint a bit, and apply my 'Hollywood history' filters, would these marines do as soldiers to fight these villainous masked bandits?

Actually, I think I'll be using them anyway; what I'm wondering, is how wrong will I be?

Or you could decide that the highwaymen are smugglers.

Yes, as the Scorpion Miniatures Marines are in Tricornes.

"what I'm wondering, is how wrong will I be?"

For much of the C18, Marines wore, basically, variants on the normal army uniform. They were established and disestablished as needed over that time; usually when war with another naval power happened.

They were, to all intents and purposes, soldiers who went to sea. This caused problems; in order to be paid, army units had to parade the full regiment. Of course the marines were scattered across ships (and hence the world) in company or sub-company size units…

For inspiration, I would recommend Bruce Alexander's novel "Smuggler's Moon":

link

Alexander has a series of novels based on the (historical) Sir John Fieldind, blind London magistrate and founder of the Bow Street Runners (precursors of the Metropolitain police force), and also half-brother of the novelist Henry Fielding ("Tom Jones").

All the novels are excellent for period feel, but in "Smuggler's <oom" the protagonists venture out of London to the port town of Deal, erm, dealing with smugglers there.

The novel includes seevral good scenarios for skirmish-level games, including LotHS.

As you already have the BS "marines", and as I have already had my own personal aneurysm concerning them, I will just suggest that you can use them as the "historical" troops presented in the novel. And you can feel righteous, because even Alexander bends the bounds of historical likelihood with his selection of forces!

Allen

*Fielding*, obviously…
*Metropolitan*
*Moon*
*several*

Really shouldn't be typing in the dark…

They are ideal and to be honest (counting buttons) more suited to chasing highwaymen than pirates as their unifomr is a bit later than the 1720s

British marines weren't royal until 1802. :-)

What period is this for?

That and they wore a short mitre up to the 1720's.

You'll need to watch Plunkett and Macleane prior to gaming this genre though. Its an unwritten rule.

imdb.com/title/tt0134033

Yes indeed cloud captain.

Your highwaymen can move through out the period they are not strictly period exclusive but as said the Black Scorpion would be more fitting for the 1740s onwards and not necessarily marines :0)

I just tracked down the BS marines.
What's the point of PotC tricornes when you can have perfectly "accurate" marines in bathrobe and shower cap, like Funcken shows, and Foundry, Old Glory and Black Cat make?

Come on, guys. Pirates are Hollywood, Hollywood is fantasy, fantasy = sill looking figures. Why go for vaguely historical, when you can go with laff-out-loud silly looking, AND be "historically accurate" at the same time?

If you want to oppress Highwaymen, I recommend grenadiers or dragoons, the two traditional oppressors of the powdered wig and beauty mark era.

JOFM is right I would go for the expensive but lovely looking Foudnry Mounted grenadiers and dragoons and the mounted and dismounted Dragoons from outpost. If you get the Foundry deal you will also get various civilians and and highwaymen etc and from outpost some lovely highwaymen and others

Its an unwritten rule.

But you just wrote it. Does not compute! Does not compute! Does n- <BOOM!>

If you buy one each of the Dixon Marlburian dragoons, with a few head variants, and paint them with white/gray, red and/or blue coats, you have a perfect 1710 Obadiah Hakeswill Deserter Detachment. I call mine Ye Badde Companye.
I have used Old Glory Marlburian Grenadiers in Mitre to oppress Rob Roy and Roddy McCorley with also.

If you want oppress with Foppish cavalry, there is none better than OG's Governor's Guard, from the Pirate range. Mine have yellow coats and crimson facings. I was all out of lavender at the time.

The coats on the Black Scorpion Marines are cut too short. Is this "fault" that everyone is referring to?

I plan to use the figures to form the personal bodyguard and/or henchmen of my dark character (Milady de Winter) who pops up here and there in our 18th century wargames. Since the Black Scorpion marines don't look like any conventional military force in the 18th Century, I figured that I would outfit them in de Winter's personal livery of black coats and red facings with straw colored breeches and waistcoats. As long as they are fantasy figures, I might as well use them in a fantasy unit.

BTW, I like the figures despite the uniform inaccuracy.

Has anyone else noticed that a large percentage of the BS pirates have peg legs or hook hands? It seems like this lot has been in some rough fights. I wish that pirate ranges would limit the peg legged pirates to just one figure in the whole range. Arrghhh, there be me rant!

I think they should look fine for waht you want DAF as liveried troops or henchmen. What all have pointed out is that for Pirates on the historical front Mirtes would be the way to go whereas these lovely chaps are more akin to the POTC film govt troops.

As to the old leg missing perhaps you could with these guys make them veteran troops a sort of awkward squad as they are wearing nice frock coats and such painting them in an invalide unifomr would be a good way to go

Fritz, it reminds me of the insurance forms we used to take home in grade school.
"Wow! Look at this! You can get $5,000 USD for an arm or a leg!"

Some people collect 15mm Napoleons. (Hi Shawn!)
I collect Long John Silvers. They stand around the fireplace at the Admirla Byng and throw things when a joker comes up.

We always looked at where you could get a million for a death, and then all eyes turned to the weediest kid on the bus …

Sadly, that was usually me.

Thanks for the help, anyway. Suggestions for alternate miniatures miss the point; I have these guys already, and I like them, so they're getting used.

All this talk of Funcken, facings, grenadiers and dragoons frightens and confuses me. I'm back off to the SF boards to talk about lasers, plasma cannon and powered armour.

@Steve Flanagan

I forgot not to write about Stand and Deliver Club. That's the second rule.

Give us your lupins!

Andrew. Repeat this a few times:
"They are MY miniatures. I BOUGHT them. I PAINTED them. If you don't like them in a Pirate game, go away nad never talk to me again."

I see that inflation has hit kid body part insurance since the 50s.

@Andrew Paul: an interesting, original idea – and don't be slave to 'historical accuracy', you are not intending to play overserious 'historical simulations'! And I always appreciate those open-minded ones who 'divert' minis from their intended use – did you notice that, their pointed ears filed down, some Foundry female elves would make perfect 18th C. courtesans?.

@BS Marines uniform: the coat is cut short indeed, and the minis are specially interesting and full of potential for that. Reminds of the uniform worn by the half-breed cadre of the French Laptots de Goree in Senegal.Thus, this uniform is perfect for 'alternate' oversea operations. Such 'alternate' colonial expeditions / wars are a 'classic' of Victorian Science Fiction with settings such as Afriboria, Morvalistan, Zimdar… But such campaigns could also be set by Lace Wars times. Such fights *did* occur during the WAS and SYW, in South America, Africa, the Indian Ocean… but outside India were generally of a very limited scale. Now, the *could* have been larger, and etxended to other theatres – Indochina for instance. And what about France, Great-Britain, Russia and Spain (from South America) competing for Australasia?
There BS Marines could be used in units of their own or as 'European' cadre of Native troops (truly 'local', or Askaris / Sepoys brought to the new theatre of operations). Since the local costumes did not change that much, many 19th C. 'colonial' minis could be enlisted as 'Natives'.
Vagues ideas, slightly more developed here:
link

Now, is the BS Marines uniform really 'unhistorical' : 'fantasy'?
Was not such 'lighter' uniform worn by troops under very hot climates? Also, I've a vague recollection of Spanish Naval Infantry in 'on board' dress with short coats…

@25-28mm Pirates: I tried to build a list of 25-30mm *female* pirates: link
(yes, that's the link, just scroll down – just before the 'Castle Falkenstein 1745'? §). If anyone know other sources for such, please kindly post a reference here – thanks in advance!

@John the OFM:"Pirates are Hollywood, Hollywood is fantasy": indeed, so enjoy the freedom; I dream of WSS minis receiving a morion by headswap, to fight against Black Beard's sons by the time of the WAS! But here, we are told of highwaymen, anyway (a few pleasant 28mm highwaywomen are available, btw).
"a perfect 1710 Obadiah Hakeswill Deserter Detachment. I call mine Ye Badde Companye." / "Foppish cavalry <> none better than OG's Governor's Guard, from the Pirate range. Mine have yellow coats and crimson facings. I was all out of lavender at the time.": pics, pics, pics? (blog, blog, blog?) – even if it's unfortunate indeed you were out of lavander: yellow faced crimson reflects so well the 'Sangre y Oro' Spanish banner it's almost blandly 'historical'- was the tricorn feathering purple-violet, lime green or something, at least?

@Der Alte Fritz:"I plan to use the figures to form the personal bodyguard and/or henchmen of my dark character (Milady de Winter)": Der Alte Fritz first really unhistorical unit, hurrah, Champagne pour tout le monde! Nice livery design, btw (though Hollywood '3 Musketers' vilains, Rochefort and the like, are generally almost wholly in black, with a little white, to look really 'evil' / 'funereal') – Given her name, de Winter's livery could be white & ice blue, 'Snow Queen / Ice Witch' fashion, but it would be too cute. Anyway, we know that when travelling incognito de Winter wears the colors of Spring…

Hopefully you will not be shy, and will post photos of this fictitious private warband on your 'historically-inclined' Journal – and of your SYW war balloon also!

Cheers to all,
Jean-Louis

Personally I dislike the Tag "Royal" pre 1802, just read an account of the New York campaign 1776, some author's refer to them as "Royal Marines", bootnecks were marines, simple fact, I assume these BS marines are similar to the ones seen apprehending Captain Jack Sparrow in the first film POTC, their uniform was spot on ……!!!!!!!!!????????

Plunkett and Maclean….. now thats a film and a half!!!

AWI, Jack Absolute Illuminati, Lady De Winter………. now I have one to play

As Shakespeare once said "to game for fun or not game for fun… that is the question"

With their 'too short' coat, BS marines would be a good basis to obtain de Saxe's 'Legionaries' ('larger waistcoat' instead of [great]coat).
TMP link
Just a mass headswapping with minis in Schomberg helmet (probably better to mould the 'alternate' heads, unless one has a source of cheap plastic ones?)…