"HELP - MEDIA WANT TO FILM IN OUR CLUB" Topic

We have a club member who is a character. Ex Bouncer, so foul-mouthed it would make the Late Scurvy sound like a CoE Vicar, and built like a brick outhouse gone to seed.

He has strong views, and lets rip with them whenever he feels like it.

Some Club Members find him overpowering and scary. Some like him a lot.

His membership goes back a long way, but he vanishes for long periods at a time, so he is really only an occasional visitor.

He is in one of his 'Back at the club' phases at the moment, and late last night I get a call from the Assistant producer of a TV show for (UK) Channel 4 who want to film at our club. Today.

Turns out the guy is in one of those TV shows where they put Adolf Hitler in with the Local Rabbi for a week, or Swap Stereotyped 'Chav Moron Woman' with 'Lady Henrietta Toffington' and then laugh at them both in the name of TV entertainment. In this case Member X has to live by Christian Principles for a period of time.

The producer wants to film him going about his normal life, and as X is a wargamer they want to film him wargaming.

My Problems;

-Channel 4 is the Home of Political Correctness, and Wargamers? – we do 'War' and are thus evil, Warmongering Murderers and Kitten Killers. Sympathetic representation of our hobby is less than evenly likely.

-The Media are a bunch of evil, lying, deceitful, selfish scum, and If I had a choice of being Tried for Treason by Roland Fiessler or having 'Pat – Traitor or Hero?' considered by the media I would choose Roland any day, and pick Robespierre as my Prosecutor. This sort of TV show only ever does harm to its participants. If Member X is willing to risk his rep doing this, all power to his elbow – but why should we be roped in?

-Member X is a man who could come across on TV as a Dinosaur – think Bernard Manning without the Racism, but with a violent streak. He is actually a more complex and I think Intelligent human being than that, but since when did TV look at a person's real character when there were simple externals to go on?

-my members go to the club to Wargame. In many cases it's a chance to get away from Real World , and relax. A TV camera is hardly conducive to relaxation.

Plus Points – they guarantee it will be two crew, with a handheld, that neither our club name or our loaction will me mentioned and that they are purely looking for a few seconds of footage of Member X playing Wargames. The TV program is not about Wargames, or Wargaming – it is about member X and the fact that he Wargames is just going to be a few seconds of Background on the guy. But can i Believe them? Trust the Media? I would rather go to a Party at John Wayne Gacey's House.

I have taken a straw poll with the three or so members I could reach late last night – they are generally against it.

I have advised this guy that due to the short notice I need to ask the membership if they will let them film and so he will have to turn up and take the chance they will NOT.

But now I am worried – what if the mebers say no, and so we get hatchetted? 'We WANTED to film X in the wargames club, but they wouldn't let us – lets portray them as evil warmongering s.

What do I dooo? Do I reccomend to the members we allow it, or that we do not?

Pat

My advice with Channel 4 is avoid them, you are in a no win situation as they will edit and you will have little say over what happens.

The re-enactors have already found this to their sorrow.

The gains are minimal and the risks enormous this is really a 35 foot barge pole time.

The "bouncer" situation is a risk but minor compared with what could happen with "normal" players.

Have you considered emigration? The pound is really strong over here now.

I would only consider it if you had a signed contract with full editorial control over your section of the programme. We have a lawyer in the club that deals with our legal matters though we have never come across this one before.

I have to say that I saw a three minute short about wargaming on Channel 4 a few years ago. They did seem to suggest that wargaming was the hobby of on-bred maladjusted men who were unable to fit into any other social arena.

They'll stitch you up whatever you do, if they think it makes "better" TV. But you can, at least, avoid having your pictures attached.

It will introduce a lot of people to wargaming. I became interested in other hobbies when I saw taking TV coverage. People who might be interested will filter out the TV nonsense.

Make the sacrafice for wargaming :)

Call them, mail them and stick a poster on the door of your club that filming will neither be allowed nor appreciated. Then lock the door.

TV makers are scum. They will edit the film to suit their own ends and no one has anything to gain by cooperating with them.

Take advice from this person who once practiced a professsion that met no favour in the eyes of TV makers. They´re scum.

I am not sure how it works in the UK, but to be able to film people for a show, not just a news story of General people in the public, but in their own private club, then they must get a signed waiver from everyone who is seen, or could possibly be seen in the shot. If not, then they can be liable if the person shows wishes to take them to court over something they felt is wrong with the way they were portrayed in the show.

Even an extra in films has to sign this and they are getting paid to be there.

You are a private club with a membership. You can say no and that's that. Don't even let them in the door.

If you do allow them to shoot, insist that they give you a "personal Release form" to fill out for all of your attending members. They should have these as the person signing them is giving the production company permission to use their image and voice in the project. Don't let them shoot if they don't have the forms.

I've produced a few films and commercials in my time and this is a tough part to do, get everyone's signed forms. You can't legally use the footage if someone has not signed because of legal issues.

The bottom line I think is that if you don't feel comfortable, then don't do it. If it is only for a few seconds of shots,for the show, why don't they just film him painting figures at his place. It's all they need to convey that he is a war gamer.

Not a very inventive producer if they can't find a easy fall back like that to shoot. In fact you should call back the person, tell them no to shooting in your club and suggest that they film him painting figures at his house or something.

Just my thoughts.

Matthew

As a member of the media, my advice is not to do it.

Good news doesn't sell TV programmes: spotlighting apparently disfunctional groups does.

As has been said above, no matter what is said on the day, the programme is "made" in the editing suite. For example, all they have to do is put a Wagner soundtrack behind him playing wargames, and everyone will think you're neo-Nazis!

Cheers

VB

Unless the media outlet has a rock-solid reputation of objective reporting, (I know, an oxymoron), don't let them in. From personal experience, you will get the short end of the stick. "Reality" based shows are about sensationalism, not the truth. They will spin this for all it is worth, at your club's and the hobby's expense.

My advice would be to play it safe and refuse them entry. There's no way that C4 would, or indeed could portray wargaming in a positive light. At best you'll be shown as a few background weirdos. At worst… Well, I'm sure you could imagine how bad it could get.

Television has never been supportive of the hobby in the past, and there's no reason to expect them to start now.

Just say no.

Avoid them like the plague. Your bloke is unlikely to come across well, after editing, and you'll be his mates and thus damned with him.

I used to work with the posh girl who was in Wife Swap opposite the now infamous chain smoking benefit mother from up North. They spent half a day to a day fliming in the call centre for about 2 minutes on screen time.

From the discription of the guy they are filming I'd avoid it like the plague.I'd not want to be associated withit if it was my club.

Sane Max

If you are getting a bad vibe off the whole thing say no, it's probably for the best. Channel 4 don't make anything themselves, they buy in from independent production companies who have a vested interested in making entertainment entertaining. Don't expect a reasoned explanation of our hobby and a lot of comments about playing with toy soldiers and wanting to be Napoleon etc in the voiceover. Mind you even if they don't film in the club they are still likely do that, just use film of him pushing figures round at home.

BTW what in heavens name persuaded X to go on a "reality" TV show?

Given the nature of the programme, I'd avoid it.

My personal experience of TV and wargaming is good; the BBC filmed me a few years ago for an obscure BBC digital magazine programme, and did a good job of it; I have no complaints as to the editing or protrayal of the hobby. And got to spend a pleasant day refighting Wilson's Creek with a friend into the bargain.

Stuff 'em. Let them fill their airtime without pulling your club into the sewer with 'em.

if it were a club I'm in, I probably wouldn't show up that night.

Hmmm….. so opinions are divided on whether I should let them in?

I am tempted to meet them at the door and say 'Sure… but you need to adhere to all the club rules. OK? Good. Now, clothes off……'

Pat

Agreed with all the above.
Even if they don't deliberately paint the club in a bad light, you can bet they'll be making your club member look bad, so you'll appear guilty by association.

Refuse. ….but be as boring as possible about it.

Sensationalism sells, so be bland, non-confrontational, uninteresting and as vanilla as you can.

…and say no.

First I would have a lawyer go over the agreement with a fine tooth comb (that alone would probably put them off). Second I would "suggest" an honorarium to the club to "assist" with filming. Third, I would wait until that checked cleared before going any further with them. Last, what is in it for the other members?

I say go for it on YOUR terms, and don't sell short.

If you have such a poor view of the media, then I think you answered your own question.

Refuse.

"Just two crew." Ha. That's like saying "but it's just two elephants walking into your house." (Not meaning to disparage the crew, just that a TV shoot is far more of an invasive experience than just two or three guys walking around.) Even if everything about this situation is benign, polite, respectful, etc., you will still *not* have a gaming night that night; you will have a TV production.

Inform X that this is the club decision, and that you hope he will respect the decision of his friends not to have their lives and leisure time interrupted by a TV production, however benign. See if there is anyone in the group willing to stage a game at the man's house for the benefit of the show, but don't open the club doors.

In any case, be polite and respectful with the media rep. You don't want them deciding to film you refusing admittance. The "too short notice; sorry to disappoint you," tack is a good start.

(What you'll do if they show up anyway, I don't know. Pray for a really bad storm on your gaming night, so they won't want to stand outside and cause a "they-won't-let-our-cameras-in-they-must-be-Neo-Nazi-perverts" scene.)

And Saber6 is right; ask what the pay is.

I work for the BBC, so here's a few comments…

1) They will NOT sign anything saying that you have editorial control over use of the footage for a whole host of reasons including: cost (they'd have to get a tape to you or you to the edit to view the footage); time (waiting while the above happens); a non-TV person trying to tell a professional editor what to do ("Don't with my art!"); a clash of opinions between Important Client and Minor Contributor.

2) Everyone included in the film (i.e. filmed on the day) will sign a consent form. This usually says something along the lines of "I consent to be filmed. I'm okay for it to be used on the telly. I'm okay and won't sulk if they decide not to use it on the telly. The footage belongs to the TV company, not to me."
If you have too many members that don't want filmed, maybe the few that are willing could do a game at Mr X's house instead?

3) They might only want a few seconds of footage, but they'll be there at least an hour. Longer if they want to rig lights. Some of the time will be taken up doing cutaway shots – close ups of miniatures, hand throwing dice, etc.

4) Think about what period you will play. They can't possibly make X out to be a neo-nazi if he's playing the English Civil War or a silly cavemen versus dinosaurs game.

5) Not all media people are evil. They might genuinely just want a few "X relaxing with his mates" shots to contrast later with "X looking very bored at a prayer meeting".

If this is a life-swap type prog, the wargaming can't be a very important section of it if they aren't asking for the Christian guy to also come and play.

Alternatively, they may have a preconceived notion of X (because of the swearing, violence etc) as a sore loser – or he may have told them he's a sore loser. They might want to see if he gets riled up during games, or just to demonstrate that he even swears at his friends. If this is what they are after and it is all civilised or jokey, then it will likely hit the cutting room floor.

4) Think about what period you will play. They can't possibly make X out to be a neo-nazi if he's playing the English Civil War or a silly cavemen versus dinosaurs game.

That's an excellent point – costume drama periods should be safe from Nazi allegations…

Ah… he plays Chaoes Space Marines…..

'So, X, What can you tell me about the army these figures represent?'

'well they are ing Space-Nazis, evil ing mutant Space ing Nazis. They ing kill everyone and look – this is a Slaanesh Conversion I did. Look at the ing size of his prick!'

It just gets better doesn't it? AND I am playing Blitzkrieg Commander tonight. 'So Pat, what attracts you to Nazi Germans?….' 'They are easy to paint?…. mkay… could you just look at the camera and say 'Because I dont Love Hitler'. Say it slowly, and oh, could you leave a big pause before you say 'don't'?

Pat

this is a Slaanesh Conversion I did. Look at the ing size of his [etc]!'

Be afriad, GW, C4 will be coming for you next…

I think you already made your decision. Re-read your own post.
You have FOUR(4) negatives and only ONE (1) positive and that positive ISN'T a huge pile of cash!
It's a no-brainer.

Guiscard is right, decline for boring reasons. Just say, "I couldn't reach enough of the club members in this timeframe, so we must decline. Sorry about that."

But however you say it, just say NO. Your inner voice is warning you not to do it, so don't.

It is most likely a bad idea. Do as others have said and politely decline.

>'So Pat, what attracts you to Nazi Germans?….' 'They are easy to paint?…. mkay… could you just look at the camera and say 'Because I dont Love Hitler'. Say it slowly, and oh, could you leave a big pause before you say 'don't'?<

Oh, they don't need a big pause. They don't even need a small pause. Having used sound equipment I can tell you that all I would need is the normal pause between one word and the next, a few minutes of time, and next thing you know you'd be "Pat, the crazy bloke who loves Hitler."

"laugh at them both in the name of TV entertainment."

Say no.

Yeas and years ago, perhaps even during the Vietnam war one of the local Seattle TV stations wanted to film our Memorial Day game. We were not a club in the English sense but a grpup of guys who liked to war game togther. In fact there was a Colonial Gaming club who's leader when interviewed said that in the Seattle area there was his group, and "…varioius other wargamers"
so we became the VOWs. We met in the then largest (and I think only) wargame Shop in Seattle. We were teachers, lawyers, water dept employees… a quiet diverse group, Throgh editing and naration the TV station made us look like slathering war mongers! and for a short time after wards little old ladies in tennis shoes picketed the place rotfl.
The point of this rambling rememberance is know the objectives of the filmer.

Run far, run fast. Relocate your venue to a new location so they can't find you. Do anything, except be filmed. Never heard of Channel Four, but I agree with Ultraork, re-read your own words.

SMc.

Deny then access unless you have the ability to nuke the story from orbit before it goes public – it is the only way to be sure. If they want to film him gaming – have him take his gaming somewhere else for filming so you and your club don't have to take the hit with him. The reality TV shows don't pick people like this guy to give him a positive spin in society – they like filming train-wrecks in action and then replaying the gorey bits over and over. Avoid it like you would avoid having sex with a plague-ridden hooker with open sores! Nothing positive will come of it – I am sure!

A word of advice on refusing… if you say no then please tell them the REAL reason. Otherwise some poor minion of a researcher or assistant producer will just have their time wasted.

Researcher: They said it was too short notice.
Producer: Phone them up again and see if next week is okay.
Researcher: Okay I phoned again and they said next week they are washing their hair.
Producer: Phone them again and ask about the week after next…
etc etc

Tell them that you think that at best they'll portray you as spoddy anoraks and at worst as warmongering nazis.

Probably too late for advice, but phone the guy up and say no – it was too short notice and nothing is planned or able to be set up.

The incredibly short notice is an alarm bell in my opinion.

Let us know how it goes, pat.
--
Tim

Don't do it. No good can come of it.

w.

I think declining in the most boring and inoffensive fashion would work ok, – - but – - telling them that the reason is BECAUSE YOU JUST DON'T TRUST THEM would be equally good, and more honest. They wouldn't include that in any broadcast.

Don't do it.

Why should you guys go out of your way for some cheapass, trumped up two bit 'reality show'.

I'm a completely biased person as regards the media having been misquoted on corporate matters a time or two but…

heck no. Tell them thanks but no thanks. They will shaft you if given the chance, the only mystery is how badly and the precise misinterpretation and unkind spin that will be chosen and/or blundered into by people too stupid to pass in a real major so they chose journalism.

The sort of phrase which ought to make them go away could be something along the lines of;

"Unfortunately some of our members are under the age of 16, and we therefore cannot allow filming of the club to protect their privacy".

End of.

Say NO ! TV is as twisted as a cork screw

If they want to see wargaming in action, why can't this guy just set up a small game in his own home and have a mate over for the filming?

Chris

It is entirely human, but generally a mistake to give "polite" answers. It is also a mistake to explain. It gives the recipient a handle up on a rebuttal.

A wise man once told me "NO is a complete sentence."

Whatever you do, DON'T do it! 8)=

I was treasurer and part time PR person for our large city club some years back.
I was interviewed on the radio and by newpapers.
Almost every one of them asked if we were warmongers. Some even asked if we had Neo-Nazi connections. I was frankly, quite surprised by some of their questions.
Some put us in a good light, others in a negative way.
Overall I found it just wasn't worth dealing with the media.
All are concerned with selling their product, which means sensationalism.

I vote to tell them no. Be polite and explain as some have already said that you would rather not have your private club filmed as they could possibly place a negative connotation on your hobby.

I'd avoid talking about potential for negative implications, etc. The TV folk will fall all over themselves to assure you that won't happen.

I like the "protecting privacy of under 16s" or even better, "there has not been a consensus of members to allow it, so no."

w.

wehrmacht – yeah, but just because they assure you doesn't mean you have to say yes.

Club: We think you'll portray us in a bad light.
TV guy: No, no, nothing could be further from the truth.
Club: Sorry, seen too much reality TV to believe that.