"Horus Clone" Topic

I'd like to do a scenario or possibly a campaign for 40K set soon after the Heresy where the Black Legion is going around destroying Horus clones that the various legions have. I believe the clones were made by Fabius Bile.

The trouble is the stat line for a Horus Clone. Now Horus at the height of his power I would imagine had marks from all of the Chaos gods and would take their advantages and then some.

But a Horus clone wouldn't necessarily have those. I would imagine he would take on the mark of the Legion that commissioned him.

Still he should be pretty freaking tough. He was big enough to make marines look small according to Horus Rising and was obviously pretty tough.

Sanguinius, his fellow primarch, was able to take on a Bloodthirster in single combat and kill it. I'd imagine that Horus was pretty much at about the same level, or at least to the same level that a integer-quantized system with a limit of 10 would let you get to.

But I'm not sure he should actually be a monstrous creature.

My stat line is a little above normal for a SM character right now:

WS 7
BS 5
S 5
T 5
W 4
I 7
A 4 (or 5)
Ld 10

He would have terminator armour and a pair of lightning claws, probably. Although he is described as fighting with a sword at the end of Horus Rising.

The model I have has lightning claws, though so that is what I'm using for the first one.

He doesn't seem that tough though. I suppose a lot of it is how he's armed and what not. Right now it is tough to insta-kill him but it could be done.

What do you guys think as far as other abilities, increases in stats etc.?

I've got the stats on the Primarchs from a limited release campaign that GW did a few years back and your stats are LOW. I believe that the stat lines for Lion El'johnson are something like this:

WS 8 BS 8 S 7 T 7 W 5 I 8 A 4 LD 10
Armor Save 2+, 4+ Invulnerable Save, always get to take the invulnerable save regardless of what they are facing (Necron weapons & C'tan take note), cannot be instant killed by anything, Always either passes or fails LD tests at their option – if you want them to run away they do – automatically regroup at the end of the move even if they are within 6" of the enemy, count as 10 models for purposes of unit size, cause fear in enemy units, gains an extra attack for an extra weapon (A 5) and two extra attacks from charging (A 7). IIRC from the stat sheets, plus they have special abilities beyond these which apply to all of the primarchs – like all friendly units with line of sight can use his LD for tests and get a free re-roll like having a standard, units with certain characters gain the Furious Assault special rule if they can see their Primarch and they charge, etc. I can go try to find this stuff tomorrow or late tonight – but effectively the Primarchs are like Wraithlords only they are special characters with better armor saves, an invulnerable save, and more wounds, higher initiative, and imbue special abilities on any unit attached to them or within line of sight to them of their chapter.

Your stat line is comparable to the "Movie Marine" from a couple of years ago, without the special rules which made them rather amusing to run. The above-listed stat line would potentially be capable of killing a Bloodthirster in CC without too much luck involved. Especially since you always get your invulnerable save. Add in the fact that against Chaos there are some special characters who get to auto-wound or deny invulnerable saves depending on their weapons.

Good morning -

It may be that you would want to do somethings with his weapons too. Perhaps make the Lightning Claws also work like a Force Weapon. I would also suggest going up to S6 and T6 with the later being at that level to ensure no auto killing is possible.

Would you want to do an Invulnerable Save also? Perhaps consider a leadership of "auto".

Finally, would you want to give him something like "furious charge" or other ability?

I think he needs to be far better than what the new CSM codes has for Abaddon. Just a thought.

Erik

Ooopps. Jovian1 had much better info and we seemed to have posted at the same time.

Erik

Thanks for the responses so far. I'd be interested in that campaign. Where was it released? I totally missed it.

In my FLGS we got a campaign packet for the Space Wolves, and Dark Angels fight after the parley with Fulgrim and Perterabo, and the packet had stat lines on I believe 6 or 8 of the Primarchs from both sides of the Heresy. I don't recall exactly when it came out – but it may have been 2003 or thereabouts – we've been using the stat lines for comparison with recent releases of things and the continual rumor mills which run rampant about the return of the Primarchs in the story arch of the 40K timeline.

I will dig for it tonight if you like – perhaps I could scan it for you or something (if my scanner still works!).

There is a rumor that they are going to bring back Lehman Russ this year after the release of the Chaos forces are done or in full swing. Seems appropriate a time to release a Primarch for the Imperium – as having a character/model with a Greater Daemon stat line in your space marine army would be cool. In any case, I am sure that the stat line of any new model will change from what they were in the campaign release. Hopefully they will be cooler than just an improved stat line an a couple of abilties which make them like a holy-relic-army-standard-combo.

Thanks for the offer. I appreciate it. Actually if you could let me know the name of the pamphlet, I'll call GW and see if I can get my hands on a copy.

I'd like to see the primarch's released as a Horus heresy codex. Brining them back into the current storyline, with the possible exception of Russ and maybe one here or there, would seem like too much of the mystery being dispelled.

Check out 'The Bell of Lost Souls' site, they have stuff on the Heresy done as a campaign I think.
Mick

I'm checking it out now. Man that site takes a long time to load.

Seemed to be having a problem as took a lot longer to load than normal for me…
Mick

I'd like to see that packet as well.

How many Books are supposed to be in the Horus Heresy?

RebelMike

One thing to consider, Fabius (mad scientist master of cloning or not) probably doesn't come close to equalling the skills of the Emperor and his pet scientists, which would give you a good excuse to make a Horus clone much, much weaker than the original. Which is arguably a requirement for game play, even without the Chaos super-marks the real thing had.

If the clones had been anything like on par with Horus, the Black Legion wouldn't have been so gung-ho to get rid of them. They were insultingly inadequate parodies in the BL's opinion, right?

Based on how unbelievably cool 'the Baron' sculpt is/was,
TMP link
you may wanna keep an eye on this:

link