"Best/ worst 'WW2' vehicles in films?" Topic

..or 'movies' to our American friends!

OK- this was prompted by another post asking for Western Desert film recommendations, and I remember 'Sea of Sand' being somewhat spoilt by the Germans charging around in an M3 half- track (I know- they COULD have captured one etc etc…)but what films are the least convincing or historically inaccurate in terms of the vehicles used, and which are the best?

A subtle one is the T34/85 in Enemy at the Gates, which appeared in 1944, despite the film being set in Stalingrad (1942- 43)

Well you can always point out all the M48 post-war era U.S. Tanks in Patton.

But the best I recall are the very real looking Sdfkz 251 half-tracks in the Slaughterhouse 5.

I think the tanks in the big red one was post war stuff to

I think the German tigers were Israeli M51

I think it was Anzio that had the Germans running round in American tanks

Worst- M-113 "tank" attack in the Italian film on El Alimein. The other is the German "tanks" in "Attack". Heavily modified M-3/5 Stuarts, (but, at least they were tanks).

Best- The tank/infantry attack in "Cross of Iron". Equal to the Russian tanks and planes in "The Winter War". You don't see them often, but the equipment in "Band of Brothers". Like the vehicles in "Kelley's Hero's" even if it's modified T-34's as Tigers, all the other stuff is nice.

I nominate the Ferret armoured car that had to double as a Tiger tank in "Mosquito Squadron"

In terms of period and effort, the Tiger tanks in "Kelly's Heroes" get the prize.

The aircraft in Winter War were models. You can see them affected by wind gusts in a couple of scenes. Still pretty cool. The Stuka attack in Enemy at the Gates is classic however.

Worst by far is The Big Red One. Germans in Shermans.

With modern CGI I'm just waiting for Kursk to be done right.

An honorable mention goes to Red Dawn which had reasonable proxy's for russian equipment. "The movie's Soviet T-72 tank was such a precise replica that "while it was being carted around Los Angeles, two CIA officers followed it to the studio and wanted to know where it had come from." The source of that is Soldier of Fortune magazine so take it with a handful of salt grains.

Here we go again.
The "Wrong Tank Syndrome" nerds are swarming.

If you are going to criticize movies, the least you can do is spell them correctly. You lose critic credibility if you can't manage that simple little task.

Battle of the Bulge, Chaffees for the US and M47 for the Germans

Here we go again.
The "Wrong Tank Syndrome" nerds are swarming.

If you are going to criticize movies, the least you can do is spell them correctly. You lose critic credibility if you can't manage that simple little task.

the fact that the tanks in big red one was wrong dosn't bother me at all, I love that movie, great story showing a unit that took part in all the opertions in the ETO

I think a lot of those old films were quite quaint, they did their best with what was available. You do sometimes get some gems like in 'A Walk in the Sun' where the German armoured clumn consists of the inevitable M3 halftrack support by a real Lynx.

Best films are those which use real kit (obviously), ideally in running order. A few spring to mind:

They Were Not Divided – Covenanters, Shermans, Fireflies, Tiger I, Stug III, all working.

Theirs was the Glory – one day I will get to see this, but has a working Tiger II

It Happened Here – working Jagdpanther

The Way Ahead – Covenanters (naturally), Panzer IV (disabled), Valentines, carriers and humber scout cars.

Sea of Sand – a humber made up to look like an Sdkz 222, brilliant.

Sahara – a working Lee.

A Hill in Korea – real Cromwell.

More modern stuff, well, it is much easier these days with so many restored or mocked up vehciles available for hire.

Enemy at the Gates – very, very convincing Pz IIIs (on FV432 chassis?)

Band of Brothers and SPR obviously (the latter more for the Sdkfz 251, Marder, 20mm and Kettenkrad than the faux Kellys Heroes 'Tiger')

The same Marder turned up briefly in The English Patient and that awful series with John Thaw as a French priest whose title escapes me.

Kellys Heroes Tigers – at the time, brilliant. I was blown away when I saw it at the cinema.

Stalingrad – nice Pak 38 although the T34s were T34/85s.

Come and See – Konsomlets plus 45mm, and one of those wierd asymmetrical Heinkel recce planes. Also featuring an SD man with a pet marmoset, what more could you want??

A Bridge Too Far was a good effort.

My dad lived in Woodstock (Oxfordshire, England) when they filmed 'Hanover Street' and said the SdKfz 7's were enormous and you could hear the drivers crashing through the gear boxes.

As for 'wrong tank nerds swarming'- no-one's going to mind if you pitch sky blue pink painted Panzergrenadiers against purple zulus supported by Huey Cobras- but as this is a discussion board for WW2 HISTORY, I thought it'd be fun to see which WW2 films were most/ least accurate historically in terms of vehicles.

Each to their own!

filmpanzer.squarespace.com

Come and See – Konsomlets plus 45mm, and one of those wierd asymmetrical Heinkel recce planes. Also featuring an SD man with a pet marmoset, what more could you want??

I think you will find that was a Blohm and Voss BV141. Airfix used to make a model of it.

I always liked the irony of the M47's and M48's being used by the "Germans" in "Patton"

To explain my earlier rude comments…
Too many people seem to want to use "Wrong Tank Syndrome" as an excuse to bash quality films. They can't look past M48s to see that "Patton" is a biographical masterpiece of a film. It "ruins da movie fer me, hainna?" Sad.

Anyway, carry on.
Time for me to rant about "Tavington's" uniform in "The Patriot", an otherwise perfect cinematic epic.

I nominate Anzio for use of Vietnam era equipment in a WW2 movie.

It wasn't so much the tanks, even the heavily camouflaged "German" ones, but the jeeps with the recoilless rifles!

VB

I seem to remeber a Priest in the opening scenes of 'The Battle of Britain', it is still my favourite war film though.

Re: John's post-

I see both sides of the topic- the vehicles are just a part of any film and shouldn't make or break it, but when they're 'right' it does (in my opinion) make the spectacle more impressive- for example in 'The Battle of Britain' when they got so many German planes (even if some were later, Spanish versions?) and in 'A Bridge Too Far' when they had to scratchbuild the gliders because no originals survived.

I guess it depends if the production team were trying to get things 'right' or were just too lazy to do any more research than sticking some cornflake packets on an old Ford Fiesta!

I wouldn't have a clue if a train, vintage car or boat was 'wrong' in a film, and would probably enjoy it more for the ignorance!

:O)

"(even if some were later, Spanish versions?)"

All of them IIRC.

"The Bridge at Remagen"- The vehicles of the American Recon platoon were reasonably accurate.

"Saints and Soldiers"- German and American vehicles used in the film were from re-enactor clubs, so they were VERY accurate…

Worst movie was Pearl Harbor; simply unbelievable how they managed to nullify the positive effects of a zillion dollars worth of CGI by including some totally unnecessary shots with modern Navy vessels in them.

Greetings, Frans.

"Death Race", 1973, made for tuppence and featuring a cast of about five.

B-movie legend Doug Mclure is a fighter pilot whose grounded P-40 is chased around the desert by evil nazi Lloyd Bridges, whose 'tiger' is a sherman with no attempt at conversion whatsoever!
As much fun as it sounds… this is a good, bad movie.

Also:

"Wheels of Terror" (aka "The Misfit Brigade")

Ultra-low budget adaptation of the Sven Hassel pulp 'classic'. It's a US/Eastern European co-production starring a random Carradine, and a cast of slavic unknowns.
Sven and co.'s vehicle is some kind of SPG which appears to be built on a some kind of agricultural vehicle chassis. As if that weren't feeble enough, it's almost the only vehicle in the movie.
This is as bad as it sounds… a bad, bad movie.

"1941" – a P-40 and an M3 Lee.

"The Eagle has Landed" – a really strange conversion of an M3 1/2 track, with a roof over the troop compartment and a .50 cal turret in the middle. On the other hand, when Michel Caine is being recruited for the mission, there's an actualy StuG III on a railroad flatcar behind him.

Oh yeah… the Nazi Helicopter in "Where Eagles Dare"!
Got to be the all-time winner!
What the heck were they thinking?
But it's an object lesson; the hardware might be unconvincing, but that movie absolutely ROCKS.

The Ron Goodwin theme music…

The cable car…

"Broadsword calling Danny Boy"….

The German movie "The Bridge" jeeps with tank covers over them. good movie just poor attempt at tanks. The problem with BATTLE OF THE BULGE wasn't the tanks they used but the script&location. Didn't know Belgium had all that open scrub land.

"I seem to remeber a Priest in the opening scenes of 'The Battle of Britain', it is still my favourite war film though."

Ahhh, beat me to it. But this is a great example of a poor vehicle substitute in a great film. The M7 is unconvincingly painted dark Panzer gray with the Baltic cross, as a Stug III I suppose, and looks horrible :) But the film The Battle of Britain is fantastic. Ha ha, even if the M-109s are the wrong Spanish ones :)

Chalfant

correction, the M-7 Preist everyone is talking about in the Battle of Britian is really a US M-37 SPG. it was and upgrade for the M-7 in 44-45 that used a M-24 Chaffe hull with a 105mm gun. same versions were used in Patton as once again M-7's

I must say though, that when I saw Kelly's Hero's as a kid in the theather, I thought Wow, but then realised the tigers were really T-34/85's that the Yugoslav Army had converted for the film. That is why Eastwood had the film done in Yugoslava for they still had all that WW 2 US equipment in working, next to mint order. I loved the M-5 artillery tractors myself.

must say in Death Race when Lloyd Bridges is inpection the Sherman tank and calling it a Panter did crack me up, concidering the Panther never set foot in North Africa. well not in the German Army for in the 50's & 60's the Morocan Army got some working Panther's from France and used them.

I saw the german film, Stalingrad, and enjoyed it a great deal. There were a lot of vehicles and planes in the background. It looked pretty good, but it was a couple years ago and i have a bad memory. But, look up the film, it's suitably grim.

One of the best – Cross of Iron (1977)
Not accurate – Battle of the Bulge (1965)Although, I still liked the movie, the cast was very good.

Sdkfz251's and T-34's in Richard III. Best… use of historical armor… ever.

One of the oddest is in the TV show Combat (still one of the best WWII shows) they always used the wrong tanks but it never really seemed to matter to me. But the oddest was the German use of an American halftrack with a small cupola on the back without a hatch. Making it easy for the troops to toss a grenade into (which they always did) Still if the show is entertaining I can over look most inaccuracies (I like the 300 after all)

It must be a hard job for the 'tank wrangler' on any film set. He's only got a fraction of the budget, and even if he knows what should be on screen, his chances of getting one in working order might be pretty slim.

I remember the film Battle of the Bulge, probably first saw it at home on a Sunday afternoon on Granada and would have no doubt been a quite impressed kid then. Less so if I saw it again I'm sure. It might still stand as a Hollywood film if you think of it being 'inspired by' rather than 'recreating' the actual battle. I doubt they would've been able to get hold of more than a couple of correct German tanks, so using what I think were National Guard machines was likely the only other option.

The BBC D-Day docudrama of a few years ago helped show what you can do with CGI in the modern era when it comes to Panzers, and I think a few of the Shermans and universal carriers were real.

Gary

I don't know if this counts as "The Worst", but….
How about the TV show "Rat Patrol" and the Germanized Priests.
They had their open tops covered and were painted in a desert yellow, that was more yellow than desert.

I have the DVD and in many episodes the Priests are in a swirling meele with the Rat Patrol jeeps.

Fun show to watch.
Joe

<<My dad lived in Woodstock (Oxfordshire, England) when they filmed 'Hanover Street' and said the SdKfz 7's were enormous and you could hear the drivers crashing through the gear boxes.>>

Watch "The Dirty Dozen", Lee Marvin will escape using a Sdkfz 7. He drives over a car and pushes an armored car off a bridge with it. It does look huge.