"Throwing Spear?" Topic

WAB differentiates between a javelin and a throwing spear.

Can anyone explain the difference or is it just a WAB thing?

Roland

I think the difference is partially between weapons that are heavy enough to need to be thrown right before contact is made vs. weapons that are thrown from a significant distance.

I guess the biggest contrast is in design. Javelins are meant to be thrown at targets like missile weapons, you may not intend to engage that target. Throwing spears are designed to be tossed just before combat to disrupt the enemy formation as much as to cause casualties. Whether this distinction was ever made in ancient combat or if there is some quantized difference between the two is more doubtful.

My 2 cents worth…

A heavy throwing weapon usually refers to the "pilum" which was a short spear designed for throwing at short distances. The pilum was specifically designed to penetrate an opponents shield and then bend, rendering it unusable.

Initially the pilum had a metal shaft behind the tip which creators hoped would bend after penetrating the opponents shield. Marius refined this a bit and replaced one of the metal rivets with a wooden one that broke on contact, leaving the spear hanging at a right angle and forcing the opponent to discard his shield.

Then the Roman legionaries would press the issue with scutum and short sword.

The javelin was simply that; a javelin.

- Greg

Keep in mind too that to throw either a significant distance requires space. So skirmishers can throw the weapon with a short run. Massed troops can toss them standing, at a much shorter range (like just before contact as mentioned above).

Here's how I think about the progression of "pointy stick" weapons:

"Arrow" – very light shaft which can only be usefully propelled by using mechanical assistance (like a bow or atl-atl).

"Darts" – (the military kind) Arrows with central weights to give them enough mass to be effectively thrown by hand. (In WAB I think these get rated as javelins, but I'm not sure.)

"Javelin" – light but reasonably long shaft that can be thrown some distance but isn't strong enough to parry anything in melee. Some can be used with throwing straps or atl-atls to get better range. Often used as a secondary weapon for heavy troops or a primary weapon for skirmishers.

"Throwing Spear" – a medium sized spear with a strong shaft that can be thrown short distances but can also be used in melee. This is the typical spear most people think of when they think of a "spear", and is probably the most popular weapon in history. In WAB, this also includes things like throwing axes and other hard-hitting but short ranged missile weapons. The "heavy" version is for specialized armor-piercing weapons like Pilum and Soliferrum.

"Thrusting Spear" – a long spear too heavy to throw that has enough reach for more than one rank to fight in close order and enough weight to be a little unwieldy in loose order fighting. Popularized by Hoplites (who, tellingly, had swords for loose order work.)

"Pike" – a thrusting spear long enough to require 2 hands to wield.

I agree with Lugal – "javelins" are weapons that are too light to be of much use in hand-to-hand combat.

"throwing spear" is an imprecise term, but implies eth ability to be used usefully hand-to-hand as well as being thrown.

It is probably something that is able to be done with any spear – aparently some Byzantine infantry would throw 12' spears at he enemy if opposed by infantry, and then attack with the sword – probably not really expecting to do much damage with the spears but getting rid of them out of the way!!

I would add the "Stabbing Spear", the Zulu Iklwa for example.

The main advantage of the javelin over the throwing spear is that it's small and light enough for multiples to be carried, thus useful for skirmishers who try to avoid melee.

Throwing spears, being larger and heavier, tend to be carried in singles. Once it's thrown the soldier has no more missile weapons. When thrown, it is usually just before contact when the melee is continued with swords.

The Thrusting Spear is really a bit too heavy to throw unless you are a great warrior king and a descendant of Heracles and a suitable target presents itself, such as a God King of Persia.

Hi

In our own rules, we use the term "spear/javelin" for the dual purpose weapon above. I have no idea what the designer(s) of WAB have in mind.

Rocky