"Commercial announcements on the forums?" Topic

I've received several complaints over the last few weeks about manufacturers or retailers posting new product announcements or sales on the regular forums.

Currently, there's nothing in the FAQ forbidding such posts.

Should new product announcements and sales notices be limited to the Hobby News section?

Should commercial announcements go on the Marketplace forum, mixed in with members buying and selling items?

If a company makes a Hobby News announcement, should they be allowed to make a second announcement on the forums? Or, should a company be able to make a forum announcement while waiting for their Hobby News story to appear?

I'm open for input.

"Should new product announcements and sales notices be limited to the Hobby News section?"

Yes, surely that's what it's for?

One of the problems of Hobby News is that it is a tad unpredictable. You have no guide as to when your item will appear until after you submit, and even then it seems a bit vague. You also have no idea how long it will stay, as some news items pop on and off within minutes/hours, whereas others seem to stay for days.

I have occasionally re-submitted news items to the forums where they seem to have popped up and dropped off almost instantaneously (yes, I know they are in the listings, but it's not the same as your photo being up there as far as getting attention) or to draw them to the attention of a specific audience. The response has generally been favourable, possibly because I try not to abuse it.

On the other hand I do abuse adding my website to posts, as it seems that the majority of links back to our website come from message threads.

Geoff
quickreactionforce.co.uk

No harm in having WW2 news on the WW2 board, much more interesting than most of the threads appearing on it.

Geoff makes a good point, would be good if advertisers had a direct link to their website in each and everyone one of there posts.

No, not in each post. I try and only do it where it could be relevant, ie there is a discussion involving figures that we might sell. I don't do so where it is a general conversation/response.

Advertisers do have their green box, so in theory if you click on their name you should get info on who they are and the company they represent. You'll also get their banner with a link direct to their website. (Something along those lines might be useful in FAQ Bill)

ok well how about upon clicking the banner ad the page opens in a new window.

Doesn't it do that anyway?

(Click on my name – you should get my profile page, with our LKM banner at the top. Click on the banner and it opens a new window to our website… at least, I thought it did) :-)

As a reader I favor the posting of news items from manufacturers in threads. GeoffQRF is right, items that aren't showing a picture sometimes sneak past my attention.

As I wrote previously, perhaps all retailers who are TMP members should be required to submit both News items and pertinent thread posts for every item that they receive either as new stock, or as restocks. We wouldn't want anyone to miss out on this vital information.

TMP, and the TMP "experience", has changed so drastically from what it once was, and what we once loved. It's no longer for the amateur contributor, but is clearly now totally business driven. Might as well take it to the next level and complete the transformation.

Allen

Like Topsy… it growed

I cannot access TMP from work, so after I leave in the morning, I don't see the web until after 5. Many interesting news items I see only because Michael mentions them to me; by the time I get home, they've rotated down to the 'just the headlines' bit of news.

Frankly, it doesn't bother me a bit if they post things in the properly targeted threads.

…properly targeted threads….

Significant part of that sentence

I have no problem with commercial announcements appearing in the regular forums.

I have no problem with announcements in the proper forum, from people who are upfront about what they're doing (i.e., no sock puppets). That's been an accepted part of TMP from the beginning.

The advertiser posts I've seen in the fora tend to be responses to requests ("I'm looking for X", and the response is "We sell X, here's how you can get it"). I have no problem with those.

I also have no problem with advertisers announcing releases of their new product in the fora. Some of these announcements are made by either enthusiastic fans or sock puppets, and even though I can't tell the difference, I don't care, either, because I might be interested in the new thing. If I'm not interested, I simply move along.

So my vote is that there be no restriction on announcements in the forums.

Sometimes you see posts about products with no news article, as if the poster has not known to or has decided against submitting one. This has puzzled me a bit since it seems less effective, but its not annoyed me.

I do worry about people such as myself who are doing something on a fairly informal or personal basis, which then becomes a product, say my sculpting in 10mm or Inkbiz's lovely mirco Napoleonics. I do submit news when a bunch of my work becomes available from Pendraken, but I like to update with WIP info in forum threads sometimes. I don't want to rub anyone the wrong way by using the wrong method, so I reckon the best approach is not to be too strict unless the forum is being abused or spammed. Of course there's a certain ammount of subjectivity in that, and you can't please everyone.

Maybe if there was a product annoncement board that could be crossedposted to by the editor form Hobby news, or by general members? That way the hobby news topics wouldn't all get lumped in together and lost, but you could then look up "18th Century Product News" etc to see what had been released or announced. Separation from the "18th Century Product Reviews" etc pages would allow people to know they are not looking at reviews of product as the "Review" boards currently seem to be a mix of reviews, discussions, requests for recommendations and porduct announcements. I don't mind all these different types of threads on the "Review" boards, but if they could be separated out that might soothe those who don't like product threads started by the producer.

No

I usually don't have a problem, but last week OMM had like 3 or 4 threads announcing individual products, which I thought was excessive (and I'm otherwise a satisfied customer of Dennis')

Rich

It's fine as long as the poster will answer questions about the product when someone adds a comment. As far as I have seen, they have, and this usually gives more information than the initial announcement.

I don't have a problem will it.

Is "fora" a word or did willthepiper just invent that? No i dont have a problem with it ( as a tmp reader )as it may get to their target audience. for example i often search the different forums looking for something else and notice the announcements which have i missed or ignored when they were first posted. What gets a bit silly is when people annonce what is basically the same thing multiple times for instance gw at the moment with their chaos stuff on the news. Thw way warlord for example have been doing things seems about right not just bombarding the hobby news.

Not a problem for me either. It allows for flexibility. If a maker wants to let people know about a small update or some other bit of news that isn't worth a normal News submission (or say an announcement about a correction, or update on web problems or all kinds of small things), then a thread in the normal forums only makes sense does it not?

Allen: How is skimming over any other thread you are not interested in any different if it is one started by an advertiser? If TMP is all business driven, then why is 99% of my own interaction here purely as a wargamer? I imagine the same holds true for the vast majority of the other regular advertisers here (such as Geoff). Are you just THAT much of a grump that you need something to complain about all the time, or is this a serious issue to you? I mean, c'mon. You are the only person I have seen complaining about this (though there could be others who posted about it here).

If TMP has changed so much…then why are you still posting here? Surprised you haven't left (yet again-with a whiny departure post to boot).

TMP, and the TMP "experience", has changed so drastically from what it once was, and what we once loved.

So you speak for all of TMP then? Sort of like a gamer who thinks a type of game is "ruining the hobby".

It's no longer for the amateur contributor, but is clearly now totally business driven.

Huh? What in the hell are you blathering about? How is the amateur contributor not able to participate? What the hell is an amateur contributor anyway? I consider myself pretty amateur. So an advertiser ceases to be a regular poster somehow? How does this work? Why such a clear line as if members here cannot be both?

Or is this just your well known tendency towards hyperbole?

I guess I just don't know what all of the fuss is about on this. I stayed almost entirely away from the recent "unpleasantness" that has you so bitter, so maybe I just don't know what is driving some of the resentment.

Or it could be that your continued grumpiness just has irked me more lately. The negativity is pretty intense from you (more than usual anyway).

So besides Allen, is this a big deal to others? I ask because coming from me as an advertiser, it would seem like I am invested in being able to start threads for announcements (though I have only ever done our own news through the regular news submissions channels). Most of my posts don't even involve my own product but are just normal gaming related posts.

So what do I know, maybe it is a big deal…I would just like to see someone else complaining besides Allen to understand why which I don't see here.

How about a 'Commercial/Business Announcements' board? Perhaps limit posting (or starting a thread) to the Sponsoring Memberships. Could be turned off for those who don't want it, etc.

Receiving info is part of the point of visiting TMP.

The occasional post in the forums is more than welcomed by me.

Excessive posting by a single entity is not often a problem, no more than 1 or 2 a year and he quickly learns from the negative feedback.

They're easy enough to ignore.

I'm happy to read about new products in the news and the forums as long as its not overdone like wargamers market.

Bill, I think you are wasting time with a complete non-issue.

I would much rather see time invested in any of these:

Miniatures Directory
Old Miniatures Directory
Reference Corner
Surveys
Clubs Directory
Links
Rules Directory

And a method for being able to block delete PMs.

Since this site thrives on the exchange of info, I have no objection to that very important aspect: commercial info.

Hey, it's late; let's have some music!

link

Allen

I like product announcements on the proper fora. It enables me to learn about products before they hit Hobby News…sometimes, by several days.

And for no particular reason, but that it's good:

link

Allen

Hey, it's late; let's have some music!

It's 7am here! (Been up since about 4.30… little one has wind!)

"This video is not available in your country"

I got that too; first time I've had that happen on Youtube.
What gives?

I dont mind it.

Also, I have come back here looking for stuff a couple of weeks after seeing it announced in the news, and have trouble finding it! You can search posts and authors of stuff in the forums, but I have yet to figure out how to search the news and news talk sections of the board. Am I missing something, or can these not be searched?

Andy

Good question.

(Uh oh, my daughter likes your penguin)

It's fine with me. What I get tired of is seeing individuals appoint themselves to be forum police. Usually their comments end up sounding rude and that isn't what the TMP is about as far as I'm concerned.

I personally have no problems with topics being posted in either location. Like Neo- sometimes I miss them in the Hobby News, but catch them in the general topics.

As long as it isn't rampant spamming of boards, I say let it be :)

If every 2 hrs we get a "OMG I GOT NEW NAPPY D00DZ! L@@K!!!!!" heading in the message boards, I think perhaps actions should be taken against that particular poster.

Maybe send Allen over armed with a grammar textbook that has a few nails punched through it. ;)

I don't really object to them being posted, but I like the idea mentioned above of having a separate board for commercial announcements, if only so that I can check out everything like that in one go.

"Maybe send Allen over armed with a grammar textbook that has a few nails punched through it."

That's the one I keep for hitting myself in the forehead…

Allen

I'm fine with suppliers posting in any section they want. I come here to see whats new.

Let them post!

I just thought it was really odd to see a thread on a "Product Review" board that turned out to be just a commercial advert. No product review, just an advert with no comment. The trader concerned didn't even comment further on the thread when questions were asked.

As I said before I think such adverts should be on the Hobby News section. OTOH it sounds like a "Commercial Announcements" board is a good idea. And do these advertisers get free advertising or do they pay for it?

However it seems most others are quite content to allow this to continue, so fair enough, forget it.

Speaking as a designer and manufacturer,,,,,,,,
As a rule I don't put something up in the Hobby News unless it is a new release in one of my product ranges. I personally believe there is too much so called news allowed to be posted on the Hobby News that is not something new such as a product or a service, or something that is made to look like news that has been in effect for a long time and simply restated….all just to grab a headline.
RE posting in the threads: Sometimes I have to post news items in the threads in order to answer someone's question. I have also announced news in the threads if it had to do with an update to the web site, or something about an already released product.

It seems to me that the official channels are really, really slow sometimes, so I don't see a problem with manufacturers posting directly to the boards.

(Uh oh, my daughter likes your penguin)

Don't let her near the penguin, they are evil little blighters, and dangerous!

I come to TMP for (among other things) news about miniatures.
I don't particularly care how it is presented.

HOWEVER, I do believe that any horn tooters should at least pay for the privilege.

I'd prefer not to have a separate commercial board. I'm lazy and it's just easier to run across those I'm interested in the relevant topic boards.

Plus on principal I'm against any new boards that would have stuff I might be interested in.