"Did Judas iscariot's thread get nuked?" Topic

There was a rather lively thread started by Judas Iscariot that revolved around copyrights and was rather…erm liberaly cross posted. It now seems to have been terminated with prejudice as I cannot find it now.

Ah well…

Looks like it.

hopefully.

OK I was just making sure I was not losing my mind or was going blind.

The original post is still available, if you want it. I may hang on to it and if I catch him using it as justification for 'fair use' of copying our figures I'll be sure to put it in front of his and our lawyers…

Geoff, that would be a sound idea it was one reason I provided the information on the US Code. Just remember that as one attorney I worked with used to say, "principle is expensive." Sad but true.

I am with you on that one Geoff, we took a note of his real name and location incase he decides to order from us (no way I am accepting the order!!!) decided to write it down before his TMP account goes, only a matter of time I think!

Jo:)

BTW Geoff where can I find the thread? I've searched but no joy.

Drop me an email and I'll point you in the right direction (geoff@quickreactionforce.co.uk)

Darnit! I had a good line in that one.

*sigh*

some people are just no fun.

His choice of "Judas Iscariot" for his TMP identity says an awful lot. Enough said.

The topic belonged on The Law board on TMP Plus, but he posted it in the main forums. At this time I can't transfer topics between forums, I can only nuke them.

Well good riddance to it, I say. I wish if he insists on recasting that he would just keep it to himself and stop belaboring the point to an audience who not only don't agree with his stance but (in a majority of cases) actively dislike him.

Nuke 'em from orbit it is the only way to be sure.

Hah? Fair use justification for copying figures? What, was he selling the dupes, or something?

I can't transfer topics between forums

Cross-post to law then delete from other forum? I'm sure you've done that before (only in this case I think deleting was probably correct)

Fair use justification for copying figures? What, was he selling the dupes, or something?

Derivative work… but then it's 6am now, been up since 4 with wind – Mishka, not me – so I may not be thinking entirely clearly. :-)

Geoff

"Cross-post to law then delete from other forum? I'm sure you've done that before (only in this case I think deleting was probably correct)"

Probably the off topic boards are in a different database. I agree deleting was the best thing, the guy was talking about recasting.

I suppose I could justify buying one orc, then cranking out a zillion copies for my own use… but, then, considering the hassle and expense involved, I'd just as soon buy a zillion orcs and be done with it.

The key word there is justify…

I could repost the four factors that are considered for determining "fair use" from the US Code Title 17,107 but then Bill would have to nuke this thread because it is not posted on the Law Boards.

However, in a nutshell fair use allows for a party to make dulicates of copy righted material for purposes of research, criticism, education,news reporting, commentary, and scholarship. There are four factors that are considered when determining if something is fair use:

1) The purpose and character of the work
2)The nature of the copyrighted work
3)The amount and substantiality of the work
4)The effect upon the market or the value of the copyrighted work

That should have been "duplicates" in case you were wondering.

I wanted to add that based upon the third and fourth factors of Title 17,107 those who recast I think come close to violation of the fair use doctrine. If say I buy a pack of 4 figures then recast hundreads of them for my use then I have gone beyond the test of amount and substantiality and I have also effected the market and value of the originals as I have denied the creator and manufacturer of the copyrighted work my custom.

Whats TMP Plus ?

Keep up :-)

TMP Plus is where all the non-wargaming boards went: TMP link

Thanks Geoff – wot still no CA ?

Whitemanticore

I would have asked this in a PM, but it's not possible.

Do you work for B. Studwell?

My wife works in the academic law library profession.

Yes I work with Dean Studwell at the Charlotte School of Law. I know that you could not PM me as I am no longer a supporting member. I work as the library access services manager for the law school library. B. Studwell is the Associate Director of the Law Library and a Professor of Law for the school. If you want you can e-mail me at whitemanticore@bellsouth.net.

Damn commie peasants have no respect for copyrights. They should be punnished severely for such an offence. Am I right on that my brothers?

OPTIMATE1 11 May 2008 6:59 p.m. PST
Damn commie peasants have no respect for copyrights. They should be punnished severely for such an offence. Am I right on that my brothers?

Yes, but let's work together, we don't want to duplicate our efforts! Budda-Boom!

The crux of the argument is that debates on web forums (or even law school classrooms) are irrelevant and decisions in court and pre-trial hearings are what matters. And in those places, whenever I talk to people who've had real experience related to a case of copyright violation, is that copies produced but not distributed don't exist in the eyes of the court.

We can go on and on on this forum about how it's wrong to recast something even for personal use. We can condemn people and even start witch hunts. The courts though, will not be joining in doing so unless the reproductions have been distributed. Without distribution (and demonstrable damages as a result), the case will get tossed right away or perhaps in the pretrial hearing and not ever get to court.

If someone wants to cite a decision against someone for reproducing something and not distributing it, you're welcome to try. Such a decision doesn't exist. You'll always find either distribution, public showing or offers of sale.

Like it or not, JI is correct when the rubber hits the road. Furthermore, with his original posts now deleted and not being able to be references, it's good to remember that he also said that in the case of him producing derivative works for his own use, he got permission to do so from the creator of the original work. Vilifying him as a recaster isn't exactly accurate.

His choice of "Judas Iscariot" for his TMP identity says an awful lot. Enough said.

I actually agree with this. Choosing a screen name to be the same as the one who betrayed a major religious figure to his execution is a pretty daft thing to do. I find it completely understandable that people might dismiss what he has to say pre-emptively because his screen name alone is evidence of being purposefully inflammatory.

If someone wants to cite a decision against someone for reproducing something and not distributing it, you're welcome to try.

You sure there's not a strict liability against the copying itself? After all, you can get prohibitory injunctions to prevent the distribution prior to the trial. The distribution tends to be in the measure of damages.

I'd need to look into it further (for which I don't have time), and there may be differences between UK/EU and US legislation, but I suspect there is something there to prevent me from buying one of each figure and simply casting myself as many as I want (even without offering them for sale).

Otherwise… I own a factory. I may just have found myself a way of getting a cheap variant of any army I want; all I have to do is buy 1 of anything I want…? ;-)

Ok, just read up and realised this discussion needs to be on the law board, which it can't be as it's on the other forum…

Ok, here yo go, topic on Law board on TMP+

TMP link

Hey! Some of us commie peasants respect copyrights!

Smash the counterfeiter conspiracy, comrades!