"ACW Artillery - Calling the Experts" Topic

First, let me begin by saying I am NOT a rivet counter. I'm a gamer who loves military history. That said, I do WANT to know what is right, and if it's possible to get a mini that is correct (or more correct than other figures), I tend to do so.

I was recently wondering about uniforms, and was delighted to be properly "schooled" by several experts here on TMP regarding proper uniforms.

Which brings me next to artillery.

Don at Nordalia just released to the public his review of ACW artillery: link

I always read his reviews, I enjoy the nuts and bolts approach, and as this was an ACW review, it was quite topical for me.

But I remember reading somewhere that ACW artillery were mostly uniform in appearance. That one of the distinctive things about them were the 14-spoked wheels used on all the carriages, limbers, caissons, and even battery wagons.

And on this site, there are nice descriptions of the three carriage types (only subtle differences between them), and some nice drawings of various carriages and those standard 14-spoked wheels that went on everything: link

So here's the thing. In the review by Don, only Minifigs and Stone Mountain had 14-spoked wheels on their artillery pieces. Eureka and Friekorp/LKM had 12-spokes, and Old Glory had 16.

Am I being overly finicky if I thus limit myself to only consider Minifigs and Stone Mountain for my 15mm artillery needs, because they are the only companies that got the spoke-count right in the review?

Am I wrong in thinking they were the only ones to get it "right"? Perhaps 14 spokes wasn't the norm.

Are there enough examples of 12- or 16-spoked wheels in use during the ACW that they are all fine?

This history loving gamer wants to know. Thanks!

Steve

I'm right with you, Steve. That's why I have always stuck with Stone Mountain ACW artillery, and on the rare occasion I've used anyone else's ordnance, it's received a Stone Mountain wheel upgrade.

Allen

I'm not a spoke counter, but Stone Mountains are the best! Carriages, guns and wheels are superior, in my opinion.

I just went through Miller's Photo History, vol. 5 (which deals with artillery and forts) and counted the spokes in every shot of field artillery that you could actually count. The ones you can see. Every single one in the book counted out as 14 spokes. I did not count the seige guns.

I would agree that Stone Mountain arty are the best no matter how many spokes they have or have not.

D'oh … just counted my new GHQ 10mm spokes – only 12! Otherwise beautiful models, however.

This is why you can't tell how many guns an army has by counting the wheel spokes and dividing by 14.

I had a similar question several years ago and was told that the difference in the number of spokes could be explained away by an army's artillery authorities using local civilian wheelwrights to repair its gun carriages. Although I suppose contracting out such work was done, I did not find this explanation very convincing. It seemed more likely to me that even a civilian wheelwright would follow the standard 14-spoke pattern either because it is easier or more likely because such contracted work would be inspected and approved – possibly by a testy artillery sergeant assigned the job – before he got his money; (" 15 spokes?! This isn't for a farm wagon, Gomer. Do it again.").

I would also include the heavy field artillery in the 14 spoke pattern. I'm looking at a photograph of the 4.5-inch ordinance rifles (Rodman's) that are still setup at Fredericksburg (actually, just across the Rappahannock river on the heights in front of Chatham House in Falmouth) and they are 14-spoke

I'll be crewing an original 1864 Napoleon tomorrow as part of the 150th Anniversery of Minnesota celebration – but I just went back to one of my pitures of "Fanny" and she has 14 spokess – same with the limber.

Elliott

14 spoke wheels are the acid test. Tom Dye at GFI does them in 10mm. That's amazing. GHQ does really nicely detailed artillery, but with 12 spoke wheels. The only ACW gun carriage that I'm aware of with 12 spokers is the little mountain howitzer.

The reason for not using the 14 spoke wheel in 15mm might be related to a sculpting problem that we non artists do not understand. However it has also occurred in larger scales from time to time. Most likely it happens because the sculptor is not really as informed about "accuracy" as they should be, even though there are widely available scale diagrams easily obtained on most all the general equipment of the ACW. The diversity of styles that are currently available, are sometimes the result of "artistic liscence" more than anything else. So buy and use what you like best! You sure have lots of choices, the good, the bad and the ugly!!

Hmm … does anyone know if the AIM wheels will fit GHQ carriages? Probably not, as the figures are larger.

To answer my own question (forgot I had some AIM samples) … the wheels are pretty much the same size, in fact if anything the AIM wheels are a smidgen smaller. They fit the GHQ carriages well enough, but the sculpting style is "thicker".

From "The Hand-book of Artillery, for the Service of the United States, Army and Militia. With the Manual of Heavy Artillery, Including that of the New Iron Carriage"

By Joseph Robert, Major, 4TH Regt. Art., U.S.A., and Colonel ed Penn. Art.

Fifth Edition, Revised and Greatly Enlarged. New York: D. Van Nostrand, 192 Broadway, 1863.

link

How many kinds of wheels are employed for field carriages?
Two: No. 1 for the 6-pdr. gun-carriage, the Caisson, the forge, the battery-wagon, and for the limbers of all field carriages. No.2 for the 24 and 32-pdr. Howitzer and the 12-pdr. Gun-carriages.

In what respects are these wheels similar ?
They are of the same form and height, and they fit on the same axle-tree arm. The height is 57 inches, and each wheel is composed of 14 spokes and 7 fellies.

How do they differ?
In the dimensions of their parts, and in strength and weight.

What is the weight of these?
No. 1, 180 lbs.; No. 2, 196 lbs.

FYI -- Allen

That is a most excellent find Allen. Thank you.

I ran across something similar that pretty much said the same thing – all wheels for the normal field artillery pieces had the same wheel, with 14 spokes. But then I lost the link. Decided I wasn't sure I could trust the info I found, so I came here to ask.

One of the cool things about doing those reviews is that they spur on conversations like this. I've got (literally) hundreds of artillery, mostly 20mm… And have never once counted spokes. It just didn't occur to me. Now I'll be going back and checking out both the topic and the minis.

Good catch, SeattleGamer, thanks. :-)

Don.

I read the review cited by SG and then I went into my ACW 15mm collection. My Minifig Art has rope on the carriages. I haven't purchased Minifig Art for some time, have they removed the rope from the carriage?

They must have. Those pictures are of current product we ordered a few months ago for the review.

Don.

Very interesting. Logically that would mean they have redone the figures, molds, and are casting new artillery figures. If that's the situation, then why so much flash as indicated in the review cited? Normally flash occurs with old molds or crappy new molds. This is a concern, because I have a soft spot in my gaming heart for minifigs (I got lots of them, painted and unpainted).

A friend of mine is a professional figure sculptor who's retired now. He still makes figures and equipment (20mm scale) for his own enjoyment.

He made an artillery piece for the Japanese army 1905 and made a new 15 spoke wheel for it. When asked why he didn't use his 14 spoke ACW wheel on the basis that no one would know or care he replied that he would know.

By a coincidence I was in a working wheelwrights and casually mentioned the 15 spoke wheel. Oh that will be Japanese said the wheelwright who obviously knew and cared.

Perkunos 14 May 2008 6:53 a.m. PST
…
By a coincidence I was in a working wheelwrights and casually mentioned the 15 spoke wheel. Oh that will be Japanese said the wheelwright who obviously knew and cared.

Perfectly in keeping with the Japanese preference for odd numbers, as opposed to European preference for even numbers.