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"Palestinian clubmen in Roman service" Topic


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2,747 hits since 25 Apr 2008
©1994-2026 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

TonyBanks25 Apr 2008 11:00 a.m. PST

I have a WAB related question regarding Palestinian clubmen in Roman service. I bought a pack from A & A minis because they looked so great and well, because they are Palestinian clubmen in Roman service…
Anyway, how are they classified in WAB? Are they loose order heavy foot with D/H weapons??
I think their tactical usage was to break up Cataphract charges, but I'm not sure if they were/should be deployed in a block or as a front screen for foot like Byzantine menaulatoi. Perhaps someone could help out?

Swampster25 Apr 2008 3:03 p.m. PST

This is what the original source says:

"Aurelian, seeing the Palmyra army- drawn up before Emesa in a body, opposed them with the Dalmatian cavalry, the Mvsians and Paonians, besides those of Noricum and Rhcetium, which are Celtic legions. Nay more, there were the best of all the imperial regiments picked out and chosen man by man, the Morisco horse, and the Tyanians, the Mesopotamians, the Syrians, the Phoenicians, and the Palestinians, out of Asia. All were men of courage, and the Palestinians, besides their other arms, had clubs and quarter-staves."
"The Palmyra cavalry were much too strong for they Roman horse, most of whom were slain; but the work of the day lay chiefly with the infantry. The Palmyrans were amazed to see the Palestinians fight so stiangely with their clubs, and were not a little disconcerted by it. After a fierce encounter, Zenobia's hosts were put to flight, and they trod one upon another, insomuch that the field was covered with -dead men and horses."
Not musch to go on for tactical usage!

Hrothgar Returns25 Apr 2008 9:17 p.m. PST

Interesting qoute. From the context it sounds like the Palestinians were regular legionaries or auxiliaries carrying clubs 'besides their other arms'. So maybe they were regular troops recruited in Palestine, but were given clubs to deal with the cataphract charge?

Nik Gaukroger25 Apr 2008 11:51 p.m. PST

It is indeed most likely they were regular Roman troops – the same tactic is recorded as used by Constantine at Milan (I think it was Milan) and Constantius II at Singara.

Swampster26 Apr 2008 2:04 a.m. PST

I've seen a suggestion that Zosimus liked the tactic used by Constantine and Constantius but preferred to mention it being used by a pagan and so attributed it to Aurelian.

Not sure I believe it though.

GarrisonMiniatures26 Apr 2008 2:27 a.m. PST

I would like to see how the original version translates when tranlated by a wargamer. 'Clubs' could just as easily be a case of 'well, that is how they were used in this battle, so that must be the word to translate it to'. Terms such as pike and spear have suffered from translations in the past.

Other possibilities? Perhaps the Romans in a particular legion followed (OK, chronilogically wrong, but you know what I mean) the English longbowmen and used their dirty great big mallets as a weapon instead of as a tool to hammer in tent posts? So they used mauls, which they already had, to club the enemy…..

Just an option, random thoughts giving another possible reading of the text.

Personal logo BigRedBat Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Apr 2008 3:20 a.m. PST

In one of the Roman Uniform Ospreys, there's an illustration of a Roman auxiliary armed with a club for crowd control purposes in Jerusalem. Perhaps clubs were used over there a fair bit; from what I've read it rarely seems to have been very peaceful in that era.

Simon

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