"Wierd War Stuff Here or Not?" Topic

NO

1. Agree with aecurtis

2. How would the pulp, horror, or sci-fi boards here like it if we cross post all the WWII threads to their boards?

So strange. This discussion is like a peanut butter cup: Weird War II is two great tastes that taste great together, WWII + pulp, horror, or sci-fi.

If you only have one of these elements, it obviously belongs on only one or the other board. If it has both, then it can certainly be posted on both
(or even all of those) boards. This is an easy distinction.

HH, that's absolute cobblers. The moment you add 'weird' fantasy elements to WWII, it becomes fantasy and is no longer WWII.

By your twisted logic, 'Transfomers' should belong in the Modern Wargaming boards.

Or how about cross-posting all threads about Daleks and Cybermen to every single board in the TMP forum? By your logic, they clearly belong in all time periods…

I'd have no problem with Transformers v/s Marines or something like that on the modern boards. Of course it should be crossposted to sci-fi and toy gaming too.

Not a Doctor Who fan, so I barely know what you're talking about there. But if you're talking time travel, I'd put romans v/s Daleks on the ancients and sci-fi boards, etc.

"I'd have no problem with Transformers v/s Marines or something like that on the modern boards. Of course it should be crossposted to sci-fi and toy gaming too.

Not a Doctor Who fan, so I barely know what you're talking about there. But if you're talking time travel, I'd put romans v/s Daleks on the ancients and sci-fi boards, etc"

God help us..

…., hang on, ….naaahhh….you're joking aren't you?, you little tinker…well done, had me going there for a minute

You don't think ANYONE on the modern boards might want to look at the marines? Or that ANYONE on the modern boards might think it's amusing? Some of those people who would be interested might not regularly look at the sci-fi board. So, post it where people who might be interested will see it. It's that easy. WWII walker made from actual WWII tank? Post it where it's easy for both sci-fi and WWII fans can see it. Post it in one backwater Weird War II board and you only guarantee almost no one will see it. How is this hard to understand?

I understand perfectly…;o)

and I think I've made my opinions perfectly clear, can't see much point in adding to them any further.

Ah, you see there's the rub… You say 'WWII walker' as if it's something that actually existed or even COULD have existed…

A big, technologically-impossible and fantastical stompy thing is still Fantasy, even when it's built out of twenty different WWII tanks, HMS Victory, an Old Guard Grenadier and Elizabeth I…

… and don't even get me started on zombies…

I'm done here. I see how people manage to get dawghoused. Have fun skipping past my weird war posts on this board.

Are you suggesting that WE should get dawghoused for daring to suggest that people are abusing the WWII forum?!

LOL

I'm actually trying to get my second stifle – my one stifle has been so lonely for years now.

As mentioned earlier, nothing kills a forum quicker than people filling it up with irrelevant crap. If this was a Rugby Union forum and you were a Rugby Union fan, you'd be pretty bloody annoyed at people regularly posting about Rugby League, Premier League Football or Tiddlywinks. Yes, Rugby League has a passing resemblance to Rugby Union, but it isn't Rugby Union.

This was a good WWII forum for discussimg WWII gaming (as per the description). It's rapidly becoming less so, due to the quantity of fantasy-related threads that have been posted here lately that have nothing to do with WW2 other than German paintjobs, balkenkreuze and cod-German names.

I've got nothing against anyone playing with Helga von Teese the Power-Armoured SS Zombie Sex Vixen From Mars, provided that you keep it on your own forum (and preferably in a padded server). I'm sorry you haven't got one yet – talk to Bill and ask im to give you your own forum.

Just stop kidding yourself that it's WW2.

I should remind you that the question WAS asked – I'm sorry that you don't like our answers.

Yep,
Post it here, just label it so the High Minded Academics can have fair warning about violations to Board Purity.

Sheesh.

Guiscard

Mark…Have you got any pics of Helga-Von Teese?

(and if not, do you want some?)

;o)

chris

Nobody said anything about academia or purity – all we do is discuss WWII wargaming. Is too much for the users of a WW2 forum to ask that the discussion is kept to WW2 and not fantasy?

Surely, as the 'new kids on the block', the onus is on you to make the case that fantasy gaming should now be considered to be WW2?

I seem to remember that she was in a TMP banner advert, sandwiched between Hans the Aryan SS Ubermensch Cyborg Zombie-Master and Gitte the SS Mech-Mistress of Pain.

no…..not THAT pic…I've got some others – You know- "Special ones"????

Ooo – are those the ones where she's wearing the flying helmet and holding vet celery…?

Surely, as the 'new kids on the block', the onus is on you to make the case that fantasy gaming should now be considered to be WW2?

Your statment is already biased and loaded:
1. Non-Historical WWII period gaming is not "fantasy". Your intentional misuse of accepted terminology only undermines your respectable point on which we disagree.
2. No one on either side of the discussion is advocating that gaming with Weird WWII elements are the same as a historical refight.
3. TMP is already what it is. Neither side is really new. So the "onus" is upon the side that wishes change. The status-quo suits me fine.

Guiscard

1. It might not be 'Fantasy' as defined by your very narrow interpretaion of the word, but it most definitely fantastical and must therefore be fantasy.

2. You are doing so by posting on a WWII forum. No matter how many Ambush patterns you paint or how many faux-German names you use, it isn't WWII and shouldn't be cluttering up what WAS a great WWII forum.

3. Your 'logic' is baffling – WWII-fantasy-sci-fi-horror-zombie-stompy-robots is very much a new phenomenon on this forum and I don't recall coming across any of the most vocal advocates (including you) until the fantasy posts started appearing here recently or indeed until this very discussion started. It is therefore you who is trying to change this forum, which brings me back to my point made three posts up.

Anyway, there's a poll on this subject on the Polls Forum – go vote.

Definitely doesn't belong here. If it didn't/couldn't have happened. It isn't historical gaming.

1. It might not be 'Fantasy' as defined by your very narrow interpretaion of the word, but it most definitely fantastical and must therefore be fantasy.

How deliberately obtuse of you.

For clarity, My statement:"No one on either side of the discussion is advocating that gaming with Weird WWII elements are the same as a historical refight."

2. You are doing so by posting on a WWII forum.

‌‌
I can see your furrowed brow from here.

3. Your 'logic' is baffling – WWII-fantasy-sci-fi-horror-zombie-stompy-robots is very much a new phenomenon on this forum…

Uh there are posts dating back to 2002. Check the thread on this subject since you don't seem to know the content of the board itself. It's okay, it comes from your microscopically narrow view.

…and I don't recall coming across any of the most vocal advocates (including you) until the fantasy posts started appearing here recently or indeed until this very discussion started

There's that darned view thing again. Try pulling your eyes away from the lens, it looks pretty good out here.

What was it you were saying about changing things again?
You mean pre-2002?

Guiscard

LOL It's pretty obtuse to suggest that fantastical fiction is not fantasy.

No furrowed brow here – just a huge grin – I wish we'd encountered each other earlier, because you're very entertaining… I presume it's because you don't come here to troll very often? :o)

Well when I saw the title for the original post regarding the recce panzer, I didn't realise it was for a 'alternative history' scenario. My Panzerese isn't very good, and there were just too many types of German AFV in use during the war for me to remember anything other than the common ones. So when I clicked on the link and read down it wasn't until I got to the phrase 'Martian incursion' that I actually realised what it was about (that, and I'm a bit slow sometimes). So I said 'oh' and moved on. A triple W in the post title may have helped me out some.

Hand on heart, I wouldn't mind a separate board for the genre. I tend to post here because quite a few people drop in with a broad knowledge of actual WW2 history. If you restrict your postings and appeals for help (which I'm quite fond of) to specialist forums you can miss out on that pool of knowledge. Topics covering fictional wars and or equipments can be a distraction for an historical board I would agree.

I don't know that there's been a flood of such topics recently, and that raises the question if there was a specific board would it see much usage. Perhaps the Ed could give such a thing a trial run and see if it pays it's way? The irony is whenever I've checked in on this thread recently the banner advert often seems to be for the subject.

I don't get the appeal of the genre myself, but I don't have to. It's not my thing it's someone elses. I don't particularly like the theme of Nazi Germany surviving any longer than it actually did to be honest; and I've never understand the whole zombie fascination thing (I'm thinking of cinema here more, how many of those films are there for crying out loud!), so combining the two leaves me icy cold. But it's a game, I don't feel like it's exactly being rammed down my throat when I browse here, so vive la difference.

Gary

LOL It's pretty obtuse to suggest that fantastical fiction is not fantasy.

It's manipulative and disingenuous to pretend that the common usage for "Fantasy Gaming" doesn't exist.
But I guess it fits with your overall superior attitude.

I presume it's because you don't come here to troll very often?

Umm… I don't come here often? Where have you been? The editor has been Dawghousing every poster in sight who uses troll as a word instead of the symbol
Please insult me according to board rules from now on. We need people who want to fragment the community. It's really the direction of the future. Hopefully we'll eventually get to your utopia of everyone on their own board answering only their own posts.

No wonder you are so alarmed by these postings. Sorting fact from fiction doesn't seem to be your strong suit. I could see where you would get confused.

Guiscard

LOL Thanks for the best laugh of the week in suggesting that I'm the one here who can't sort fact from fiction…

:oD

Show me how to post symbols and I'll use them – is there a symbol showing a talking arse?

Anyway, it's just occurred to me that I shouldn't trip-trip-trap over your bridge any more. As I said before, the question was asked and we answered. I'm sorry you don't like the answers given, old chap. Bye.

TMP link Fantasy boards

TMP link
Sci-fi boards

Not knowing the difference doesn't enhance your argument.

And nor does it help your argument to be unaware of the distinction between fact and fantasy…

But apparently cursing at someone does?

Yes – if it's mildly bad language, used for comedic effect (though I agree that it would only really work on someone with a spark of humour).

Coming back to never having encountered you before, I thought I'd do a search (by Author) and I wasn't exactly surprised to find that prior to this present poo-storm (sorry, is 'poo' too strong?), you've participated in precisely one (un, ein, une, uno) discussion on the WWII Discussion forum (according to the TMP search-engine)…

The same can also be said for our friend Praetor.

So have you only come to this forum to start an argument over a forum you don't even use? In that case, I think the green, bridge-dwelling moniker is quite appropriate.

However, this is 'Abuse'. 'Arguments' is down the corridor.

Bum.

Yes – if it's mildly bad language, used for comedic effect

That's not the case here though is it? Your statement was a targeted insult. Again, manipulating the language is not a position, it's attempted misdirection.

I think the green, bridge-dwelling moniker is quite appropriate.

Slow learner, aren't you?

R Mark Davies

How do you check how many posts you have made in a particular forum? All I can see when I check is the total number of posts I have made since becoming a TMP member, but not how many per which forum.

Amalric

Hi Amalric,

Found it by accident – type the person's name/tag into the search box, check the 'By author' button and away you go.

Cheers,

Mark

Guiscard… Which 'targetted insult' exactly? I'm sure I can do better… As Hobbes once said to Calvin… "'Funny' is in the eye of the beholder"… ;o)

So why are you here if not to [light-sensitive silicon-based mythical lifeform]? It is demonstrably the case that you don't use the WWII Discussion Forum, so why does it grip your poo so much that many of us who DO use this forum are quite keen to maintain the (historical) status quo?

Are you like a TMP version of Mary Whitehouse (she was a self-appointed guardian of morals in the UK, who would cruise the TV channels late at night and even buy the entire top shelf of a newsagent's, just so that she could find something to offend her)?

Mark

Thanks for pointing out the "By Author" Button
I never noticed that before.

Amalric

Which 'targetted insult' exactly?

Again, deliberately obtuse.

It is demonstrably the case that you don't use the WWII Discussion Forum,

It is demonstrably the case I do not Post very often. But please, don't let a lack of information stop you now. Assume away.

So why are you here if not to [light-sensitive silicon-based mythical lifeform]?

Troll Rule
TMP link

In general, this whole "post count" thing you're into now is pretty much where many TMP threads go when a poster has no value to their position. The tactic of "your point is invalid because your pedigree doesn't measure up" is really weak.

So that's where we are. You've cursed me, then repeatedly called me a troll, and now question my right to offer an opinion.

Quite the arguement, wow I'm impressed. Were you captain of the debate team, or captain of the debate team in dreamland?

Oh, I'm sorry, how would you know the difference?

Guiscard

Hmmm… 'High-Minded'… 'Superior'… 'Insulting'…

"Pot. Kettle. Pass message. Over."

You know me SO well, old fruit – I was the squadron mass-debating champion 1989-90. I've clearly got a very long way to go until I rank as high as you, however. You've got me bang to rights, guvnor and I submit to your superior intellect and I now agree that zombies are people with feelings too and are historically valid, provided you give them MP40s, swastikas and Germanic names.

I also apologise for suggesting that you were a non-participating member of this forum. I should not have assumed so much from your near-complete absence of any constructive contribution to WWII discussion over several years and I hope that you will forgive this breathtaking assumption on my part. I entirely respect your right to be a forum voyeur.

I'm also terribly sorry about the post-counting thing. I just assumed (again) that since you were counting all the posts back to 2002, then it was perfectly acceptable for me to do it too – silly me.

We also seem to have had a misunderstanding about cursing – to a former member of Her Majesty's Forces, an intentional curse would go something along the lines of "You're talking out of your ing arse, you ing !" I hope that clears up any misunderstanding between us about aimed and intentional curses?

And finally, I'm very sorry that you assume that I'd called you a 'Troll'. If you actually read what I've written, you'd find that I actually used the VERB to 'To Troll' and not the noun. I expect that you are a perfectly reasonable and worthy gentleman and not at all carboniferous… It's just what appears on the screen under your name that has a whiff of coprolite about it.

So please pull all your teddies back into your cot – I will submit to your superior wisdom and will declare publicly that Monty was a ing knob for not using big stompy things and holy water bombs during Operation Market-Garden.

Reply if you want – I'll be elsewhere.

Sorry to point this out, but the walker topic was posted to Sci-fi board which is where I commented from, oh and 9 posts (on WW2 topics) before this nonsense started, all to do with WWW2 but so what, you're following Overlord44 policy that we have to to earn the right to post?

"And nor does it help your argument to be unaware of the distinction between fact and fantasy…"

using that definition, all gaming is fantasy….you are planning to attack everybody who posts anything that is not historical fact aren't you, including all what if scenarios?

As has been proven, posting WWW2 topics is not a new thing, the post complaining are.

No.

They always make me wonder if it's a manufacturer or a retailer drumming up trade.

No

As has been pointed out, this is a WW2 land discussion board

Weird WW2 is not World War 2, take it to the most appropriate board – which to me is Pulp, or Sci Fi, where I am sure it would be welcomed, but not here.
Thanks

Ken

Seems the people have spoken. The recently concluded poll had 215 folks expressing an opinion (why folks vote "no opinion" in a purely voluntary poll eludes me). Of those some 57 voted for one of the 4 choices which stated this should be under either WWII exclusively or under one of the other choices which included WWII boards. 158 picked choices which did not include the WWII boards with the single biggest vote going towards a completely separate topic board. In other words, by an approximately 3 to 1 margain, it doesnt belong here.

Now it appears to me any group which continues to post where they are not wanted are just being troublesome and perhaps reporting such posts as such might get some attention.

The best suggestion would seem to be crosspost to the historical boards where there is a link, for example the recent Star War 1942 topic, which i'd put as firmly sci-fi (while having some WW2 background/look added) i'd crosspost questions such as what allied bomber would make a good 'millennium falcon' like aircraft to convert……..fast, rugged and able to mix it up with fighters. I probably wouldn't be able to get a suggestion for a WW2 aircraft without posting on the WW2 boards.

In future i'll probably crosspost Weird WW2 stuff to sci-fi, horror, pulp etc as appropriate and post to relevant WW2 boards for suggestions for WW2 figures, vehicles, planes etc. Long term WWW2 may need a board of it own (like pulp), linked to the relevant boards.

The poll was strangely worded since it didn't mention pulp at all, I wouldn't assume that everybody who voted for a Weird war board or other are against posting on the WW2 boards (I voted other by the way).

Reply if you want – I'll be elsewhere.

Funny, I think we heard that before….

Anyway, it's just occurred to me that I shouldn't trip-trip-trap over your bridge any more. As I said before, the question was asked and we answered. I'm sorry you don't like the answers given, old chap. Bye.

Oh, so we did. But I guess you wouldn't be able to claim such a high post count if you actually just answered questions.

No.

I would make an exception for serious "what if the war hadn't ended in 1945" cases, but as soon as the zombies and/or walking tanks appear a topic should be kept to the fantasy and/or SF boards exclusively.

Greetings, Frans.

'I would make an exception for serious "what if the war hadn't ended in 1945" cases'
I hate them the most of all Frans! just an excuse for nazi uber panzers, attack helicopters, and wire guided anti-tank missles, by 1945, the Germans couldn't have made a spoon! Always smacks of the Nazis in Berlin saying, 'ok,ok we lost…….er……best of three?'.
It's still a fantasy game, in my humble opinion.

Wouldn't it have to be best of five…

"I hate them the most of all Frans! just an excuse for nazi uber panzers, attack helicopters, and wire guided anti-tank missles, by 1945, the Germans couldn't have made a spoon! Always smacks of the Nazis in Berlin saying, 'ok,ok we lost…….er……best of three?'.
It's still a fantasy game, in my humble opinion."

No game is ever 100% historical John, so this is simply about how much deviation from history you'll allow for. I myself draw the line between what could have been, and what couldn't have been, where do you draw yours?

Greetings, Frans.

"I myself draw the line between what could have been, and what couldn't have been, where do you draw yours?"

Exactly the same….and 1946 wire guided missiles, attack helicopters, "Neu Heer" in GROOVY CAMO!!!!! (drool, jabber…) are just about as likely as Zombies and Nazi Dominatrix witches…
Alternate post war "Patton needs a straightjacket" scenario..fine, but do it as it had a chance of actually happening, with any German troops (pretty unlikely anyway) totally supplied by the US.

"WHAT?????" (
I hear the panzer porn lobby cry????)
"You..you mean…NO Tiger III's???"
(sob, quiver)
" No Model 46 peadot Camo??"
(Post war SS-style camo…Yeah, that would have happened, even the Soviet Union's PR dept could have made something out of that )

"No ATGWs on Panther chassis????…They could have made one, they could!!! they could!!!!!!"

in 1946 German industry would have been hard pressed to make my bed..like the Yanks would have let them anyway, even if they didn't happen to have 50,000 shermans sitting around..funny that none of this junk made it to Korea.

Pure fantasy (with a small "F", wouldn't want to upset the Fantasy mob)