"Ottoman Guns, Maritime, Metallurgy Tech and Trade..." Topic

Sweet! Thanks Condottiere!
You ever settle on a set of galley rules?

Sweet links! Thanks.

As for Renaissance galleys, have you seen the Perfect Captain's "Lanterna" rules?

Those are great links, thanks! They are going straight into readplease and I'm going to listen to them while I paint tonight.

More like 1/1200, though I suppose one could scale up. You'd need a hella big hall to sail around in, though.

The Jackson Gamers did ancient galleys in 15mm, at:
link

I'd think one could use those or the "My Galley Sally" rules:
link
and add renaissance flavor to taste.

If I had the figures in 28mm, I'd use "Lanterna" for fleet action, then fight the land-based man-to-man stuff with other rules. I used a modified "Chain Reaction" for Pirate games, that would work for this period too, as far as my own gaming.

An aside: the idea of using Ancient galley rules for the Renaissance doesn't really work.. the ships and the tactical systems are very different. see:

link

I agree, the ships and systems are different, but in the end I see the effect at game level as a difference in degree more than an either/or difference.

Some ancient galleys emphasized the function of the ram, but certainly not all. As Guilmartin says, boarding and artillery were also important weapons (I'd consider archers to be a form of short-ranged artillery as well).

Moving forward to the Renaissance the ram and artillery have been combined into the battery at the bow, and guns and light pieces have replaced many of the archers (though not all).

I'd argue that one could consider Renaissance galleys to be extreme versions of the same idea we saw in ancient galleys.
1) Renaissance galleys have artillery like ancient galleys, but they have a heavier battery than the ancient ones, and they concentrate it in the bow. Both also included small arms (bows, small rail-mounted guns, arquebuses and similar man-carried bow-replacements).
2) In gaming terms Renaissance galleys could ram like their ancient counterparts, though the mechanism was different, one was a point-blank attack with the ship's bow and the other was a point-blank attack with the (battery on the) ship's bow (Don Juan's tactic at Lepanto, for example). Both could damage the opponent and aid the boarding battle.
3) Both ancient and Renaissance galleys could carry boarding parties, and boarding was an accepted tactic.

In short, the difference between the old and the new is a matter of degree, of how the flexibility of the big artillery battery affects tactics – when do they use the battery as artillery, and when as a ram-substitute. Both ancient and renaissance galley battles reflect the employment of long-range artillery, short range attack with the bow of the ship, archery and boarding battles.

In my mind the big difference between ancient and Renaissance galleys is strategic – when the ships and batteries got bigger crew had to follow, and Guilmartin points out how that enlargement of crews necessarily shortens their operating range. That changes strategy more than tactics, in my opinion.

A couple of small points re: arquebus vs bowmen..

* the arquebus can be fired while covered by shields..
the bow can't. (same with cross bow)

* the arquebus will punch thru shields.. arrows won't.

* the higher rate of fire on initial contact for bows was
negated somewhat by body armor.. and the fact that
archers pretty quickly played out.. ie. it takes muscle to
shoot. No so with the arquebus.

On ramming: Renaissance ships did not "ram". ie they had no hull-puncturing rams (aside from being bigger and slower than
ancient boats). The idea was to board.. either on the side (with fewer defenders) or bows-on.. to use the artillery.

BTW.. artillery was or could be very effective. The galleasses at Lepanto sank ships with gunfire..

Has anyone tried "Serenissima", the Langton Miniatures Rule System for Rennaissance?
link
link

For those interested in more "serious" politico-economic history, there is a long wikipedia essay on the Ottoman administration system in the Balkan territories.
link

QHas anyone tried "Serenissima", the Langton Miniatures Rule System for Rennaissance?

I want to try these rules, but haven't seen them yet. No, IIRC I did see them a year ago at Brookhurst, but didn't have the cash for them… :(