"54mm Sudan players -- Roll Call!" Topic

I am acquiring my 54mm Sudan figures Brits vs Dervish. What rules are you using? What figs are you using?

Roll Call! I have seen warjack and craigspiel mention they are doing this period. Who Else is doing this period in this scale?

Weigh in with your comments gentleman!

I've been starting to look at this – No rules in mind (except the usual TSATF). Likely a limited set of figures will be used – they will be the Scruby figures we cast to start with.

I think Armies in Plastic would be a good place to start.

I'm still working on the painting but Armies in Plastic is the only way to go, plenty of foot and mounted types for each side, just no camels or artillery but then I'm going to be doing skirmish games most of the time.

As for rules…I use GASLIGHT a lot but I'm looking hard at TSATF.

I have a bunch of the army in plastic and will be using them almost exclusivly. I did order some charbens camels for pack camels and some charbens arabs for the emir and command figs. I am watiing for the the AIP royal navy landing party to come out later this year.

I am using the BMC spanish AMerican war gatling gun and will convert it to drum fed rather than stick fed. I will use AIP inf converted into Royal Arty and use some BMC cannon.

I am converting egyptian lancers into life guard cavalry by swapping heads, cutting off the lance lanyard, and adding in some swoppets ACW replacement swords.

I will be using officer figures of Egypt lancers and indian lancers (the ones with sword aloft) to convert into brigider figures with a head swap.

I think I will use a rule set I found on freewargaming.net website.

AiP minis. Rules wise I have used Patrols in the Sudan and TSATF. Currently working on a homebrew set…

Gentlemen;
I am just coming out of a few years in winter quarters. My British expeditionary force consists of: Camel Corps, 42nd Highlanders, Royal Irish, York 'n Lancs. Gardner guns (2) 7pdr. Mtn 'owitzer, and one Gatling, all crewed by Royal Naval Brigade. I have others, but can't remember what. All of the above are Trophy toy soldiers. Also three (3) 9pdr. RML guns, also Trophy. Also a fair size Naval Brigade, and several scratch built river craft, including one Panache (sp?), and two (2) Nordenfeld guns on naval mounts.
I have just orderd a big bunch of Armies in Plastic Fuzzy's. I got three sets a week back. This is the first I have seen of these, and I can say that I am quite pleased. Although there is considerable painting to do----volunteers?
As for rules. When I had a real live advisary, we used many sets, these were his. When he bugged out to the big city he took everything with him. I am now looking for solo rules,and I want to do campaigns including the Nile, and the 2nd Afghan War. I have lots of research on both. Did campaigns in the past, and they were great fun.
So, I will see what the conensus is on this forum.
I am indeed excited ablut not only finding this forum, but just getting back into wargaming.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

I would love to do Sudan in 54mm.AIP has a good selection for starting.30 different Dervish foot poses, 5 mounted and enough British Infantry.But after that? Kind of stuck unless you like to collect glossy painted metals.
Even then you would have to search high and low for cannons, Mounted British, Camel mounted , arty, ect ect.
+ spend a fortune.
Or, convert LOTS of figs.May be someday. Irish Mick, Happy to hear you are back into troops and gaming!

ragnar

I have been toying with doing it. I am currently doing 1/32 WW2 and Spanish American war. I would use AIP. Probably do some head swaps to make some Brit Cavalry. I think arty could be fudged a little.

Thanks,

John

If you want to bite the bullet, Irregular makes a couple of figs that would be of use in their Indian Mutiny and Colonial ranges.

Right, now that we have established that there are some of us who enjoy the Nile Campaign. what about rules? I for one, as I stated,would like to do a campaign again, but what rules lend themselvs best for that, and solo? I have not fought a war in quite some time, and from the looks of things, things have reallt changed!
Can we get a list of somesort with locations where to buy. I am getting close, but alas, when I packed my army into winter quarters, I chucked most of the terrain, and what buildings I had. Fortunately, for me, I saved all of the Mimosa trees/bushes plus the palm trees. So all is not completely lost.
Tomorrow I go through the rest of my foot lockers to see what treasures lurk within.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

I found a rule set on freewargamesrules.com (?) called "Pot that fellow someone!". It uses 10 figure units. I read through it a couple of times and it looks pretty good.

Camels have been problematic. I am thinking about MARX camels. I am not sure if they have been recast. I have Charbens and Reisler. The Reisler are hollow cast, and not very nice, but they did make a mounted Egyptian in fez.

Tomorrow is the Indianapolis Toy Soldier show. Anyone else going?

Try Reamsa Camels. There are also hollow, it is not as noticable as with Charbens. Reamsa are also much bigger, for 60mm. I'm doing the French Foregin Legion vs. Arabs, so I needed lots of camel riders.

Andrew

Where do you guys find these camels? I would like to have some of the for the AIP Arabs I have.

Re: Artillery.
If you are doing the Nile Campaign, they only artillery that is needed is the screw gun, and 7pdr. mounted on camels. I have the ordnance returns for the campaign. If anyone is interested I can look up the details.
Also a couple of Gardner guns, and maybe a gatling thrown in, and these I believe can be had from Mountford in the UK. Does anyone know if H&R is still in business? I have two (2) of their screw guns.

-The Irish Mick
Ariaona Territory

Re: Armies in Plastic.
Lads, I have just got off the land line with Tony, the owner of Armies in Plastic. I placed my first order, and I must say that his a real gentleman. My order will go out on Tuesday. I can say, that there are good things afoot for later this year, and I can't wait.
CraigSpiel, That is an interesting site. Specially the article on making terrain. I just may give it a try. I live in a very rugged area, and the rimrock formations are quite spectacular. I can pick up the rock right in my yard.
I can make my own rock formations in my 'spare'time

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

I ordered some charben camels from Michigan toy soldier company online. I am expecting the shipment to arrive early next week. Hopefully the dromedaries will be amongst the items I ordered. I will update everyone once I have recieved them.

Right now they are slated as supply camels for the brits but if I like them, I will convert some fuzzy wuzzies into beja camel riders and make a rub of about 10 figures (meaning I will need to order more camels and more fuzzies!)

Well, after all these years one cannot be expected to remember what one has. Just opened another foot locker, and therein were enough Commissariat & Transport Corps animals to meet me needs. Two Britains (Deetail) elephants with howdah's, Seven (7) commissarit oonts(Kipling)with loads, and many cast horses mules all in breeching . Two (2) sets of elephants with 40 pounders, and gunners, Mahots in tow. I am set. Now to continue opening lockers. Great fun!

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

The charben camels arrived. They are the arab camels and have a base and are solid cast. they will do nicely. I ordered 4 for my british to use to carry supplies.

I just ordered 10 more arab camels and a charben horse and some Armies in plastic fuzzy wuzzy infantry. I plan to convert some fuzzies into beja camelry and convert a fuzzy into osman dinga on a horse.

The charben arabs set have a seated arab on the arab camel and two standing figures. these will serve as my mahdi or emir command element.

Michigan Toys soldier company is having a 20% off everything sale and it ends today. So take advantage of it if you can. That is where I ordered the items from.

I took advantage of the so called 20% off sale, and ordered six (6) boxes of Fuzzy Wuzzy's, Also was told that I qualified for one FREE box! Order arrived last week, only three (3) boxes of fuzzies,the rest out of stock, and NO free box. Contacted them ,and was informed that no free box would be fourth coming because it was not part of the sale! Contacted Armies in Plastic (Tony) on Saturday, all items in stock, and will be shipped on Tuesday. Honest,and straight foward with me. Needless to say, I will not be ordering from chicago toy in the future. Rant off.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

The Irish Mick,

Sorry to hear that your order did not go as planned. I have always received excellent service from them.

I have a top 5 list of places I shop for my 54mm items
Michigan Toy soldier company
Toysoldierco.com
Classic Toy soldiers
Toy Soldiers of San diego
Hobby Bunker

I have also dealt with Conte collectibles directly during the recent 50% off sale and they had great customer service.

I have not yet ordered from Armies in plastic directly but it sounds like you have had good service.

Service is critical. I usually work with Jennifer at Michigan Toy soldier company and she is wonderful!

Don't discount them. they may have an intem in the future, speak with them and I am sure they will try to win back your business.

disclaimer: no sock puppetry, just a satisfied customer of all of the fine establishments mentioned.

Well,
As I am new to the plastic soldiers, I trusted this company. I will have to check my incomoing signals from them, but I do recall the signal came from her regarding the "free" box". Yes, so far I am quite pleased with the attitude of Tony at Armies of Plastic.
I was a dealer in military antiques for forty (40) years, and I still dabble a bit, and your customers are your bread, and butter. Treat them good, and they will be back, 'em, and ………….
Any way things are really getting exciting. Today I found more goodies including 28 Indian sowars of the 127th Baluch Lt. Infy. Trophy.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

Gentlemen;
Is there enough interest to start a Postal Nile Campaign? ( for lack of a better word) I don't know if this is feasable, but it sounds like it might be worth a try.
I once hosted international Postal shooting matches for the Snider-Enfield, and Martini-Henry rifles. There were contestant from all the major english speaking countries that once carried these weapons. Great fun it was.
I would like to throw this out for your thoughts, and comments.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

I just went back to the AIP website and reread their Fort sale info. Buy a Fort playset which comes with the fort and 3 sets of figs and get another 3 sets FREE! All that for 49 dollars plus 12 dollars shipping! I'm ordering the Fort Khandehar set on Tuesday. Been toying with jumping back into colonila in 1/32 for a while now. I love the Sudan but I believe that the NWF will be easier for me to do. Less mounted types and far fewer units of it.

I will make up some adobe style buildings to go with my Fort using cork. I have had great success using it to make my 1/32 WWII ruined buildings. I buy it for 5 dollars a pack (4 12"x12" sheets 1/4" thick) at Walmart.
I figure I'll need another 4-8 boxes of troops to flesh out this initial order. I'll probably use either Gaslight or The Sword and the Flame with 10 man units and 5 man cavalry.

My fire was lit this past Saturday when my son and I played in a 1/32 Alamo game at a local show in Kentucky called Warband. We were both Mexican commnaders. I was the Generalissimo Santa Anna. Very bloody, lots of fun and quite cool! Started to pull out my Alamo figs but was drawn to the NWF instead.

Thanks and sorry to deviate so far from the topic!

John

I just tested the dervish cavalry by AIP on the charben camels and they would work nicely also. now in addition to the beja "fuzzy wuzzy" camelry i am planning to create, I am likely going to have a few baggra camalry. I have baggra cavalry as well.

I am converting some egyptian lancers into the life guard and dragoon cavalry. I picked up some swoppet replacement swords and they fit perfectly into the open ring hand of the lancers. now all I need to do is swap heads with a british infantry figure and a few other little modifications and the british cavalry shall thunder across the desert!

-John,
Would you mind offering us your comments on the fort when it arrives The last campaign that we did was the Panjkore River Campaign. It last over six (6) months. It took both of us some time to make the terrain, since the campaign took place in the mountains of Afghanistan. We followed the directions on Gen. Crmeoden's(sp?) web site. Unfortunately there are few books out there on the 2nd Afghan War. If you are interested, I can post you what is available. It is alot easier when one has a few books on the war.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

Sounds good. I hope that it'll be here by Saturday.

I'd appreciate any info you have.

Thanks,

John

-John et al,
Here is my list of books on the 2nd Afghan war. I believe that with one exception, they are all still in print. If requested, I will post a list of books on the Nile Campaign.
The first one is a real sleeper, and it is quite resonable, under $15.00 USD if I recall. On Service in India, The Mein Family Photographs 1870-1901 (96 pgs.). A photographic history of several generations of officers who served in India with emphasis on the 2nd Afghan War. Fantastic photos of the terrain in Afghanistan, and many photos of troops, including Meins 5th Punjab regiments. You can't go wrong on this one. I found mine of Amazon.com a few years ago.
2. The second book is The Road to Kabul, The Second Afghan War, 1878-1881 by Brian Robson. An execellent work.
3. Not a lot of photos, but good quality. You may have to go to England for this one.
4. The North-West Frontier, British India and Afghanistan, A pictorial History 1839-1947. By Michael Barthop. Another must have book. Lots of great photos.
5. The Afghan Wars, 1839-1919, by T.A Heathcoat. I also reccomend this book.
There are several other very important works, but alas they are out of print. You might try Naval and Military Press in the UK. Losts of reprints, but with the dollar in the outhouse, the cost, plus shipping wight give you heart burn. I have several other very techinical works, but the above with serve you well in learning about on of England's more critical wars of the 19th century, and also giving you considerable help in planning your next campaign among the hills and; valleys of Afghanistan, and the tribal areas of the North-West Frontier.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

Thanks for the info. I posted a review of the AIP Fort Khandahar playset under the Plastics section.

Thanks,

John

John,

Nice reveiw. seeing as the fort sale has been extended, I might take advantage and open up another front.

OH, the great game continues. Who knows, I might even pick up a few French foriegn legion and russians to game the fashoda incident and some minor russian incursion on the NW frontier.

thanks again for the review.

John,

The classictoysoldiers.com website I believe still has some afghan cavalry on sale for about 8 bucks a box. in case you are interested.

Addendun:
Sorry, but I missed one very important work. The Afghan Campaign of 1878-1880. This is a reprint of the original 1882 capaign report. This is an outstanding work containing the complete roster of all English infantry Bns.,
cavalry, and artillery units; and their complete cambat reports. Also included is all Indian Army infy. regiments, along with cavalry, and arty units. There is more! A complete list of all serving officers. This volumn is only available from Naval and Military Press in England.
Well worth the price.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

Right, how does one find the plastics section?

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

Irish Mick,

go the link below

link

Thanks mate. I can just see myself now, painting for the rest of the year.
After finally finding John's review, I didn't realize that there were soo many parts to this forum, anyway, I guess that I will have to order the fort.
Another problem. I drove forty miles to Wally*World,and to my chagrin, they only had three (3) colours! They are no longer handling Acryllic paints. Living in the back country has it's many rewards, but having to have nearly everything shipped in has it's drawbacks. I guess that I will have to make a treck to the big city :(

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

Right, as there does not seem to be any Acryllic paints anywhere in this area; can someone let me know where it can be purchased at a reasonable Price?
Thanks.

-The Irish Mick
Arzona Territory

Gentlemen;
A minute of your time if I may. I have some questions for those of you who presently campaigning up the Nile, or those who plan to when they have got enough troops together.
How are you organizing your English troops? By Coy, or Bn., and will you be fighting a coy, or bn. as the primary organization?
What rules are you planning to use?
Thank you.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

I have certainly done this, and it was a lot of fun.

Whoops! Sorry, I used GASLIGHT rules.

I just did an inventory of the figs and will be attempting to see if I want 10, 12, or 16 figure battalions. I found a few rulesets on freewargames site but am also interested in exploring a few others.

So to answer your answer more concisely Irish Mick: I don't know yet. LOL

I will be working on it next week when I get a little free time from work.

SKYTREX should still have their Hinchliffe range. Think it had camels?

I'm likely to use either gaslight or The Sword and the Flame. However, I'll probably use 10 man units for TSATF as well as Gaslight. Works fine.

Thanks,

John

Re: Unit size.
Gentlemen;
I found your troop size comments quite interesting. Since I really did not know where to start when I fought my last campaign (2nd Afghan War) So I based my coy size on the actual army returns for my Bns. Also keeping in mind that Bn.s on active service were never up to actual strength. Using the Camel Corps. as an example. Each coy whether from a infy Bn. or a cav. regt. had thirty (38) men plus two (2) officers. So my coy of the Camel Corps told off at thirty-two (32)+ ( Trophy ) OR's. Since the Camel Corps. was raised in England from Bns. on home service, they were all full strength. So the rest of my Bns. were at a strength of round twenty-six (26) or so. Having come either from India, or Egypt. They were actully under strenght.
Now if one were to base his Bn. size on say ten (10) wouldn't that make for a very small relief column? Mind you, I am speaking strictly from a historical stand pointe, as I have not one rule book as yet. I have never fought a battle with anything other a coy size organizations.
As for my Naval Brigade, I do not have a roster, so I have no idea how many ratings that I have. Another thing that must be done. I do have the Gardner guns though.
I just found in a foot locker four (4) beautifully made long boats, (actually more like a surf boat) with Klinker built hulls. Real beauties they are, but as the original Nile long boats were thirty (30) footers, mine are a bit too short. I don't whether to maintain my troops in their present historical orginzation , or go with whatever the rule books indicate. Comments please gentlemen.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

Well, from what I have read, and heard I beleive that i will start with TS&TF. Is it just one volumn, or must I order a particular one for India/Afghanistan, etc?
All duties have been completed, so it's off to the shop to start painting my AIP Ansar. I FEAR that this will take awhile. Still no Acryllic paints found.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territroy

I would use 10 men per company or half company for smaller games.

Did you try Hobby Lobby or Michael's online for acrylic paint?

Thanks,

John

-John,
I will give them a try. I started in yesterday painting my Dervish. I have three colours, and lots of humbrol. I am not sure that Humbrol is suitable for plastics. Will have to read the label. I have 140 Dervish to paint, so I will be busy for awhile.
Do you know of a set of rules called Picquet? I have read that it is a good set for colonial wars, and also solo. I will look into it, and post when I get something.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

Re: Signals.
-Gentlemen;
Do any of you have any rules regarding the use of the heliograph. I built a complete set (2) a few years back, but never had an opprotunity to employ them. Would be a great addition for communicating during battle.
Camments.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

I own the Colonial variant for Piquet called 'Din of battle'. Best set of Colonial rules I EVER played. However, they ARE not like most other rule sets out there.

They have recently released a set called Field of Battle which is easier to handle and you only buy that set rather then the PK master rules and Din of battle.

You will also need to mount your figs for that game.

Thanks,

John

-John,
Thanks for the information, but I think that I should concentrate on painting the Dervish before I ru off on another tangent.
Now, regarding your comment " they ARE not like most other rule sets out there" In what way? I have read that they lend themselvs quite well to solo battles. I must keep that foremost in my quest. I don't expect to find any one way out here on my hill station.

-The Irish Mick
Arizona Territory

They don't follow a normal IGOUGO format. New players tend to focus on each card rather than their tabletop objective. Cards need to be memorized for PK (where Field of Battle has the explanations on the card). Initiative swings can be quite huge. My buddy and I solved that by using a variant for PK Initiative. The player who won it rolled a D12 the following turn while the loser still used the D20. Another good variant is rolling against the god die. I REALLY like the rules! I used it for the Zulu War. Wow, having to worry about my NNC holding a place in line and watching the Zulu's come rolling down quickly upon you……… You had to be thinking ahead. Do I take a chance and fire at long range? Should I deploy now (our objective was to get across the board)? We used it for at least 4 games.

Field of Battle is reputed to be an improvemnet on PK. I like what I have read and plan on trying it out on my Zulu war figs.

Thanks,

John