"Matte Varnish Disaster" Topic

I finished flocking a large (over 100 figs) batch of assorted Marian Romans last night, having spent the last monthe painting 'em. The gue on the flock was dry, and I went to begin spraying on the GW brand matte spray varnish. I gave the can a couple of shakes, test-sprayed a spot (looked fine) and then began to spray away. For about 3 seconds, all was well; then suddenly the spray turned white and what appears to be white Xmas tree flock is all over about half the army.

To put it mildly, I am upset.

Does anyone know of a method for removing this stuff without destroying the paint underneath? What did I do wrong? is this a common problem? I have used this stuff for years without encountering this trouble before. HAAAAAAALLLPP!!

I think you can spray them again and that will fix it… without destroying your paint jobs…

Brian

You can try spraying it again, but that doesn't always work. I hear that painting varnish over them will work. After that happened to me too many times with all different brands, I went over to a paint on varnish. That has its own problems but no white figures.

I haven't had that problem as I always paint on my varnish.
Occasionaly when I haven't shaken and stirred the bottle well enough it leaves a white residue in the crevises of the miniature. You could try painting on some varnish to see if it disolves the white stuff as this seems to work for me. Use the brush to soak up excess varnish once (if)disolves the white stuff.

I had the same problem with GW varnish several years ago. I was varnishing 80 Spartan hoplites, who turned white within seconds. You can fixed it more or less with brushing on humbrol varnish, but it will still be visible.

That was the last time I used GW varnish. I will NEVER use GW varnish again. I still use spray varnish, but not from GW, and never had this problem again.

Sounds like one of my nightmares, Nikator! My condolences, I hope the revarnishing works.

I am almost out of Armory Spray varnish, and need a new can. So GW seems unpopular, anyone have a favorite brand of spray finish?

You're lucky. A coupla' months ago, I went to seal a reb brigade (F&F) with dullcoat. Somehow had switched the cap with white primer No save there <sigh>

I had this happen a few times. In all but one case a second coat of spray on varnish fixed it. (Mine was a different brand BTW). In the case that it didn't I had quite a bit of repainting to do.

I now use brush on varnish – a single coat of Pebeo gloss varnish and two coats of Pebeo matt varnish. But I also only do a dozen figures at a time so this is less efficient for bulk painting.

I found that old cans of Testors dullcoat turned white. Needless to say the air was blue.
Maybe just an old can?
Now I use Krylon from Home Depot.
Never a problem.

Somehow had switched the cap with white primer

Mark your primer cans with something that screams "HAZARD!!!" so that the cap isn't your only clue (I now use bright orange tape after an "incident" years ago)

It's humidity, there are times depending upon where you are located when you need to stay away from spray varnish. Late winter early spring and July/August in my area is definitly some of them.

Never use a spray can on minis- I either brush, or if I need to spray, use an airbrush- that way you know exactly what's gone in and what's coming out.
I'd recommend this method. And it's not as expensive as you might think. You can pick up a cheap airbrush to use just for priming/varnishing.
I presume the evil empire spray is polyurethane based?- then, as suggested, try a brush on enamel varnish over the top. If it's water based I would think you'll need a water-based varnish.
Try not to let it 'pool' in the recesses as you'll still be left with white bits.

I had this happen to the first figures I painted. I solved it by using some brush-on varnish over the fuzz. Never went back to the spray-can, as I'd rather take the time to brush my varnish on than have to repaint the figures all over again.

this can also have environmental causes
no this isnt an Al Gore moment :-)

everytime I have had this happen its been a humid day, usually warmish ie over 65,

from my experience, cool and humid is ok, warm and dry is best, granted that aint happening for our brit friends, try a warm dry room in bad weather
WARNING dont do it near flames/pilot lights etc
and if neccesary use a vent fan, I have done spraying in my kitchen this way
covered stove with newspaper (electric range),
turned on vent hood, sprayed, waited a half hour before turning off vent

Dave

I use spray varnish all the time, this only ever happened to me once.

I just went over the figures with cotton buds dipped in white spirit (very gently!), got it all off, resprayed a couple of days later and they were fine.

It happened to me once but never happened again since I shake the can for 5 minutes before using it.

Thanks for the suggestions. Martin, what is white spirit? Wood alcohol?

As well as having had this problem with spray varnish, I had a similar problem with spray undercoat.

My Han Chinese have a sort of rough sandpapery feel to them. Bizarre.

I have given up trying to use spray paints.

I'll echo what others have said"

Don't ever use GW ANYTHING on your minis.

Higher humidity will cause this 'whitening'. A second spray doesn't always work, but blowing on the minis will cause some of the air bubbles to dissapate and that helps a little.

High humidity will also cause the 'sandpaper' effect you describe, Richard. You've just got to throw your minis into pine-sol when that happens!

Since my GW disasters, I use Krylon for primer, never a problem in 10 years. For matte finish, I use Krylon Spray Matte Finish – a light but thorough coat shines for about a half hour; after that, its not noticeable and you tend to forget if you sprayed them or not.

john

Martin's advice is your best bet. It worked for me when I had this happen. It is usually caused by the matt separating from the medium due to age . With ALL spray cans that we use in miniatures it really pays to SHAKE THE CAN FOR 2+ min before using. The humidity that is mentioned really brings out the lack of mixing.

Art School is good for something :)
Good Luck Nikator!
Clif

Try coating one with future floor wax or a gloss varnish, then recoating with a different matt. It's less drastic then rubbing them with thinner and you can always go for the drastic solution if it doesn't work.

I had similar happen a couple of years ago. I re-sprayed with a gloss varnish and it got rid of the frosting. The result was not perfect as it seemed to flatten the paint job some how – the highlighting was not as sharp as when painted. But it was good enough for me to not have to re-paint or throw my toys away in a huff.

Steve P

"Martin, what is white spirit? Wood alcohol?"

No, it is White Spirit, you buy it in big bottles from your local DIY shop – it is the stuff you use to clean your paint brushes after using enamel paint.

Perhaps this is a PVA/White Glue thing? I've no idea what the US equivalent of White Spirit is – it certainly isn't ethanol or methanol and I imagine it wuld be extremely toxic indeed if you drank it.

Note – the white spirit thing is not going to work on acrylic varnishes, only solvent based ones. I was using Humbrol matt, which is usually very good, although there was a duff ultra-ultra matt batch a few years back with a new formulation.

I use Testors Dullcote both brush on and spray on and have never had a problem, best varnish I have ever used.

As I am 44 and been doing this for over 30 years that is a long time :(

Andy

I had the same problem in the Summer, humidity does it every time. I found that when I take my figs from a cool area, (I work in my basement, which is about 10-20 degrees cooler than outside during the summer),and spray right away I got the white spots. If I leave the figures outside for say 20 minutes, not in the direct sun, there is no problem. Lately I have been using Krylon Low Odor Clear Matte for indoor spraying.
link

I'll go with what John B. said. I had the same prob. with Games Workshop's sprays. I now use Krylon primer and on recommendation I'll try the Krylon spray . varnish. agplumer is right Never spray on a high humidity day. Krylom seems to work great and you can get in N Y for about $2 USD a can at Liquidators.

I had a couple of bad incidents with GW Matt varnish (Purity ?!? Seal)
You have my true sympathy.. my immediate reaction was deep depression.. which switched to natural-born-killer instict after 2 mins .. fortunately I was far away from the local GW shop..
Btw, I did shake the can before spraying, and did test, not sure if long enough though..

The white effect was pretty much what is described here. I tried to re-spray with little fortune, I tried to brush/clean with some water and obtained a very slight improvement.. eventually I repainted the parts most badly affected..

Now I developed a sort of paranoia before varnishing:
Option 1 – no risk: I am thinking of buying an airbrush just for coating (what a pain in the posterior though..)
Option 2 – some risk: does shaking for 5+ minutes will always prevent the separation of the elements in the can??

Finally. Are the alternative matt-varnish spray can indicated here available in the UK? I will be at Salute 2008, any advise?
Thanks

Max Krylon is a huge paint co. in the U S but don't know about the U K. If you can't find it in the U K try Testors sprays, they worked fine for me for about 10 years now. I only switched to Krylon because of the cost. Testors a good product is much more expensive than Krylon. Good luck with your hunt.

Thanks for all the help. I tried re-spraying, and it worked fairly well, clearing up the problem on nearly all the figs. There are a few I may have to simply re-paint, but my guess is the number of do-overs is less than 10 (as opposed to 50-60 originally affacted). BTW, rubbing alcohol DOES remove the stuff…along with the paint. I'm glad I only tried that on one figure, no big deal.

A thousand thanks for all the help, guys.

A friend of mine just painted some wonderfull Old West Gunfighters and Indians. Sprayed them with the GW Matt Varnish and the whole lot was ruined as they also turned white. As a result we at my club would never use GW Matt Varnish. It costs a bit more but we use Artists Matt Spray now. Its worth it in the long run, you just cannot trust the GW stuff.

I've had problems with varnish when spraying outside when it was very hot or very cold

I use the cheap stuff from Wilkinsons and never had that problem. Their spray Matt black isn't bad either.

For undercoat, I always use matt white or black from a car parts shop (Halfords in the UK).

The finish on a car's paintwork demands a very smooth and fine undercoat, so I'd always rely on car undercoat to deliver a good flat finish.

My issue with GW matt varnish is that its not actually matt, more a slight edge of satin to the finish. Testors is the one to go for.

I have had no end of bother with the "frosting" on my 6mm guys.. cheers. now I know how to repair the damadge.

Strangely never happened once to any of my 28mm dudes.

I use the Wilkinson's Plasticote stuff foe undercoat (black, grey & white). Never used the spray varnish from there.
I didn't know GW did a matt varnish. I had a whitening problem with Humbrol matt varnish which really hacked me off. Not totally white but gathered in the recesses. A quick brown wash solved it (they were zombie & orc figures so not such a big deal, messy is good). Now I spray gloss and then brush on matt. Slower but a lot safer.