"Panzer Flats" Topic

New from StrikeNet Games. Panzer Flats are unique paper miniatures, in full-color, highly detailed, individually numbered and printed on heavyweight 65# cover stock or label paper for easy mounting. Scaled for 1/285 and 1/300 and ready for play. Have you sometimes thought about jumping into the exciting world of WWII miniatures, but haven't because of limited time, resources, or lack of interest in painting an entire Panzer Division or a Russian Tank Corps? Then Panzer Flats is the answer for you!

link

Marketplace?

Supporting membership?

I am not certain I completely understand the 'Marketplace' question. The Flats are intended to get more people interested in playing WWII miniatures and for those that would give it a try without first having to invest (time and money) in a miniature force of whatever size.

While designed as a complementary product to the Panzer Miniatures Rules, they can, of course, be used with any rules system.

You need to be (at least) a Supporting Member to advertise here, and the correct place to do so is the Marketplace Board.

Panzer®

The word "Panzer" is a registered trade mark !?!

Sorry, Chris. Looks like you will have to rename your rules…

Yes, Panzer is a United States Registered Trademark #75951053, registration #2845197.

I'll upgrade my membership to a Supporting Member level. I didn't realize that was a requirement.

I also didn't realize that the Marketplace Board was the exclusive location for product announcements, since I find new product announcements posted here much of the time.

That's okay, mongoose27; we'll forgive you!

I think Panzer Flats is a great idea, by the way. In all truthfulness, I already own plenty of 1/285 and 1/300 micro-armor, so I'll have to think about getting your products. But I will give it serious consideration, because your paper miniatures would let me do some good-looking solo games very quickly.

While designed for 1/285th how do the rules work with other scales?

Yes, Panzer is a United States Registered Trademark #75951053, registration #2845197.

So we're not allowed to use German terms anymore? Have you trade marked "armour" or "armor", too? In the army, we used to call our Leopards, Panzers. Will we get sued for that? Are you going to go after all these websites: link (12,200,000 hits) ?

What kind of idiot trademarks a single word?

It apparently only applies to: "Compact discs containing game rules for use with a military board game featuring miniature figures played on a tabletop."

Still, single word trademarks seem a bit dodgy.

According to the US Patent Office ( uspto.gov ) the word "Panzer" is currently trademarked five times ( didn't count the dead ones ) , not to mention many combinations of "Panzer" and other words, many of which are also gaming related. Glad I don't have to fork over any $$ every time I crack open my Panzer Colors books.

Norm, it still seems ridiculous. Does this mean Mobius can no longer give away his Panzer War rules? What about the Mein Panzer rules by Jonathan at ODGW? Can Tamiya continue to sell Panzer Grey paint?

Okay, call me a nit-picker, but I'm looking at the samples of the German units, and I'm wondering why the terrain represented on each one of them is different. I might have used terrain type that was representative of the theater, and used it for all units.

Also, Something about the PzKW V at the top bothered me and I finally figured it out. While the tank art appears to be lit from the right, the drop shadow cast by the tank and gun indicate lighting from the left. In fact, now that I look at them, they all appear to be rendered that way.

Still, the tank art is really nice, and the concept overall is a a good idea.

I think that this a great product. From the website it seems to be of high quality for a reasopnable price, and it fills a niche. I can see it serving to bring new people into the hobby.

So it wasn't my intenetion to stir up a hornet's nest or to create ill will towards the product.

I just don't think that a someone should be claiming the rights to an historical word like "Panzer"

However, if the word is written in a certain type font or in a certain manner that creates recognition for a particular brand or poduct line, then i think the owner has a right to keep others from using the same logo to pass their products off as genuine. I guess that whould mean, however, that it is not the word that is the tradmeark, but the whole typfont, etc., as a package.

So what exactly is registered?

If course I know nothing about the legalities surrounding what I'm talking about, so people should take my opinion with a very tiny grain of salt.

The Panzer Miniatures Rules system is utilized for a number of other scales the most popular being 10mm. It has also been employed with 15mm scale figures to a lesser degree.

It is certainly not a skirmish-level system although the scale is 1-1 for vehicles and guns; squad, 1/2 squad, and team for infantry units.

Yaquinto had a set of rules titled Panzer and both SPI and Avalon Hill used the term in several of their rules sets.

Sounds similar to TSR's attempt to trademark Gestapo for their Top Secret game. They lost the battle in court to a public domain challenge.

On the other hand, GHQ has trademarked the 'new' term miroarmor back in the 1970s. I had the term on one of my sets of rules in 1984 and had to remove them from the market and drop the term 'For mirco-armor'.

Preventing other companies from using the name of variations of the name seems as worng as what TSR tried to do.

Chris PzTp, you asked a very reasonable question. Trademark law is a bit obscure and can get real sticky. Where I have difficulty with this whole discussion and some of the posts, is where some people feel it is OK to resort to name calling and innuendo without having any idea what they are talking about.

The trademark, in this case, refers to the single use of the word "Panzer" for a set of miniatures rules and related products. The titles Mein Panzer, Panzer War and Panzer Troop, for example, are all OK and don't infringe on the trademark. Another publisher just can't call their game just Panzer.

People need to consider and remember that authors/designers put a great deal of sweat equity into designing and publishing games for what in most cases turns out to be very minimal return at best. Trying to protect their intellectual property is hardly overreaching.

By the way, I'm also the original designer of the Yaquinto board games, and I hold the rights/trademark to those titles.

The trademark, in this case, refers to the single use of the word "Panzer" for a set of miniatures rules and related products. The titles Mein Panzer, Panzer War and Panzer Troop, for example, are all OK and don't infringe on the trademark. Another publisher just can't call their game just Panzer.

Thanks for the clarification.

People need to consider and remember that authors/designers put a great deal of sweat equity into designing and publishing games for what in most cases turns out to be very minimal return at best. Trying to protect their intellectual property is hardly overreaching.

I agree completely!

By the way, I'm also the original designer of the Yaquinto board games, and I hold the rights/trademark to those titles.

It's a privilege to 'meet' you.

The trademark, in this case, refers to the single use of the word "Panzer" for a set of miniatures rules and related products.

I'm glad you explained that and sorry I was so short.

I assumed it meant you trademarked a common word in the same way Mcdonald's trademarked their name; we had a case in the late 90s where I live where a merchant named McDonald here was sued by mcYuck's for naming his corner store McDonald's. It's a pretty common practice here to name mom and pop type operations after the surname of the businessperson.

If I may suggest, next time you say panzer is trademarked, you might want to do some preemptive clarification

I still think you'd have a mighty hard time defending the use of the single word "Panzer" in any context though.

Are these based on, or related to the figures from juniorgeneral.org? The infantry figures look very similar, though it's hard to see them very clearly in the illustration.

- Bob

Yes, there is similarity to the juniorgeneral.org images. I really thought the look of the figures worked well so I had the graphic artist recreate the images as closely as possible.

Nice idea, but far too small for my eyes. But then, there's a reason I don't game in 6mm (or 10mm or 12mm for that matter). It's hard to make out what vehicles are at those scales, but the infantry? Just blobs to my eyes.

Pinnacle has a game called Fields of Honor, that uses cardboard flats which are 1.75" x 2/5" in size, and those are much more readable. And they have a uniform background as well.

But best of all, as a PDF you can print as many units as you need. I'm just not fond of buying cardstock counters (or terrain) pre-printed.

Just my two cents.

link

I generated a bunch myself from the JuniorGenerals web site. I experimented printing them out on "magnetic paper", as well as on card stock, and am happy enough with the results. That said, I can see the appeal of purchasing some pre-printed on good thick stock, especially if you're not a "crafty" type of person. Also, the inkjet consumables aren't cheap.

- Bob

A friend and I made thousands of these things back in high school (in the 70s) and fought huge armor battles with them. Definitely a cheaper way to game :)

I wonder if i registered the word panxzer with a registered trademark as a registered trademark, If you would now be in breech of copyright….