"Napoleonic Imagi-nations?" Topic

There are a number of people creating and building armies for SYW imagi-nations, but is anyone doing the same of the Napoleonic Period?

There was a great thread on here a while ago (sorry – too lazy to look for it) about a guy who did just that. His rationale was that he could pick the troops he liked and almost always get into a game as his army wasn't obviously allied with anyone.

I've certainly thought about it if only to avoid the "everyone knows that 1814 French Infantry had burgundy, not red stripes on their whatever…"

I am planning to do that with the Liberators! line in South America.

An interesting idea, but for some reason it holds little appeal for me. Probably because Napoleon's dominance over Germany reduced the number of little states in the former HRE and non of the remaining ones could seriously hope to stand up to France.

Shelldrake,

I am specifically building the history of the Grand Duchy of NordMark to include the Napoleonic period. Sure, right now, I am focused on NordMark's experience during the SYW period, but I already have mapped out the rough outline of their history during the Napoleonic period. Needs some extra detail but the outline is in place. I think it's a great idea and great fun – which is why we (at least I) do this stuff.

Nick

A variation on make believe armies/countries would be to fight the war that almost broke out after the Congress of Vienna. My memory fails me but I think the French and British were allied against the Austrians and Russians but I can't remember whose side the Prussians were on…

David

I got less lazy – check out this thread:

TMP link

The french revolution would make fascinating imaginary countries

@ nsolomon99: "[]the history of the Grand Duchy of NordMark[] Sure, right now, I am focused on NordMark's experience during the SYW period…"
Hope the initial poster will not resent this thread hijacking, but I'd really appreciate to learn more about The Grand Duchy of NordMark by Lace Wars times!
Do you have a blog? TMP link
If not yet, what about taking the plunge?
TMP link

As already a ruler of a SYW mythical country and army, do you know of the 'Emperor vs Elector' web campaign?
TMP link
Jean-Louis
aka Louys de Monte-Cristo, mad collector of any kind of info. relative to H&M Imagi-Nations -but specially to Lace Wars ones
link

Der Alte Fritz underlined one disadvantage of the 19th C. vs the Lace Wars; you no longer have the historical precedent of some 300 statelets in the Empire, allowing to create 1 or 2 more without feeling guilty of 'blasphemy'.
Another disadvantage is that, the further you go in the 19th C. the more 'specific' / 'characteristic of a country' the uniforms become. By the mid-18th C., at least for the 'relaxed' Old School wargamer, uniforms -and thus minis- are quite generic (always tricorn, coay, gaiters). During the 19th C. each major country tend to have its own peculiar cut of uniform, headgear, later gaiters / boots or lack of them… Thus minis have their 'intended' nationality more and more obvious, and your fictional regiments are more and more easily identified as 'historical minis of that nationamity painted in odd colors'.
Then it's true that by Napoleonic times the problem was not yet as difficult / drastic as later in the century. Specialy on the 'French' side, many allied countries followed the French fashion. More difficult for the anti-Napoleonic Allies (Austria, Great Britain, Prussia, Russia all had quite 'personalized' uniforms), but at least superficially late Napoleonic Portugueses ans Spanishs soldiers loked like 'British in bizarre colors'.

Maybe Latin America is more propitious to 19th C. Imagi-Nations.

Jean-Louis

Jean-Louis,

Thanks for the invitation. I'll be joining in shortly once I have a bit more of NordMark developed. I also have a friend who is developing up The Principality of Greinbach.

Nick

@ nsolomon99: very good news!
Looking forward to discover -and welcome in the merry and friendly 'EvE' group / campaign- both The Grand Duchy of NordMark and The Principality of Greinbach.

Best wishes,
Jean-Louis

Good idea!

Regards, David
wardepot.blogspot.com
milsims.blogspot.com

As I look at what my sons and I do there are some units that are "real" and others that are "fantasy". Some of the colors they choose are cool just not historical. If it in any way helps keep them interested in wargaming then I will be glad to face a regiment of infantry wearing yellow jackets and green trousers and shakos with my Black Watch.

After all we can still use this to learn the tactics and enjoy the game as well as time spent together.

As I listen to you all I might have to dust off the maps we used in college. It was an island with several small states that were at war with each other cira 1812. This would give us a purpose for the battles.

Some nice points for both side of the fence here – i might play around with some background history and uniforms to see how well SYW imagi-nations can be converted to Napoleonic.

Uniform cut / pattern changes with fashion, but their colors remained almost unchanged, 'frozen' by tradition – specially at 25-28mm scale. During the whole 18th C. the main change for British infantry was the introduction of white breeches. Thus you can 'carry forward' your Lace Wars colors patterns to Napoleonic times.
The major choice being the 'cut' of the uniform and the (now almost country-specific) headgear: here the decisive factor is what major power is currently influencing the military fashion of your Imagi-Nation (i.e. you use minis intended for that historical country).

A possible exception to the 'colors conservatism' could be a major political revolution, as the changing of French infantry coat from white to blue by the Republic -and the short-lived return of white with the 'Departemental Legions' of the Restauration. Indeed such major political change is likely after the turnmoil of the Revolutionary / Napoleonic wars; yet its degree was quite variable from a statelet to a medium – major country and thus it did not always caused a change of traditional uniform color (Bavaria kept its cornflower blue). So the choice is yours…

We approach this from a somewhat different angle by having a campaign which uses five of the main continental powers but has no limitations on troop types, tactics and political affiliations. There are a further 13 non player nations run by the campaign umpire which can be allied to, subjugated or traded with. We started in 1800 with a standing army and enough income to recruit, train, organise and maintain more troops.
There are no national characteristics except those developed by the player, so for instance a Spanish line unit is as good as one from any other nation. This obviously makes the different nations a little less challenging to play but puts more emphasis on strategy and tactical use of troops available.
We use a ratio system to stop everyone building battalion after battalion of Guard Grenadiers or Guard Cuirassier and a moderately lengthy training period means players have to think carefully before committing them to battle.
So far we are about to enter 1801 and Spain is in the process of invading Portugal, Austria has been forced to relinquish Northern Italy to France in order to contain an invasion by Russia, and Prussia is content to parade its troops around Berlin.
Basically the whole thing is a mechanism for us to have lots of battles in which players have a vested interest in achieving victory but have to live with the consequences of heavy losses. I suppose it would be better described as a fictional campaign than a fantasy one.

@ Bombardier – this sound very interesting. Any chances of posting updates as you play?

The game sounds a bit like "Empire in Arms" – if you don't have a copy I would highly suggest finding one, as it would assist in game play a lot.

Good screen name too by the way.

@ Shelldrake – I'd be happy to post updates if people are interested, though turn around times for the turns can be several weeks and longer. Players recieve a spreadsheet detailing their armies and income along with any diplomatic mail sent to them on the previous turn. The game turn period is two weeks giving 26 turns in a year.
We use the "War and Peace" boardgame map of Europe for land movement and a larger map for sea movement which allows for amphibious operations.
We are fortunate enough to have a permanent table and enough 15mm troops to fight actions of up to 70 battalions per side though most of our battles have been much smaller so far. The rules we use are In the Grand Manner.
I had considered posting on the battle reports board but never got around to it. However the next time we have a clash of arms I'll do so.
As for the screen name, we probably have a common background as Shelldrake was my old, Arm Indicator :)

@ Bombardier – very impressive and promising! Of course we stay tuned for updates, battle reports (please Xpost here) with *photos*!

Then after writing: "Pics, pics, pics!"
I cannot resist the compulsion to add:
"Blog, blog, blog!".

Cheers,
JL

Don't forget, "beer, beer, beer!"

As for the screen name, we probably have a common background as Shelldrake was my old, Arm Indicator :) – Bombardier.

Ditto, same rank. Pleased to meet you!

Awesome Bombardier. This is very similar to the solo fictional campaign I am putting together. Definitely update us using a simple blog for reports and pics.

Regards, David
wardepot.blogspot.com
milsims.blogspot.com