"Advantages, Disadvantages of CMGs " Topic

From a manufacturers' perspective, why go CMG?

If I like figures from a CMG line, I almost allways end up buying from a retalier that sells individual figures.

Rarely will I buy a "mystery" box of CMGs.

Any thoughts?

Packageing, SKU count, Marketing Hype, Outsouce to <insert name here>

Need any more?

Mass Market Retailers= Large wholesale orders

Perceived collector value turns into actual retailer value pretty quickly. There are also stronger incentives as a consumer to buy additional packs when randomized.

CCG's, CMGs and sports cards are calculated to prey on the male's tendency toward obsessive-compulsive 'hoarding' behavior as well as the behavioral leaning towards gambling (intermittent reinforcement).

The argument (and one that I've used myself) that manufacturers should sell sets of Stormtroopers, etc in place of or in addition to randomized sets still plays into the above behavioral tendencies. It's just that it's more profitable to make the whole series randomized instead of counting on the much smaller number of consumers who would buy 1000 individual figures.

There's got to be a huge market for the stuff, because Hasbro and other makers continue to produce and sell tons of it while giving the axe to lesser performing lines. Why not jump on the bandwagon with your own line or plastic toys, and get into the mass market big box stores with it? If you can get a product in Toys-R-Us or Wal-Mart, you're made.

The secondary market (individual figure sales) feeds the primary market (people who buy cases and dump extras cheap). It's just another part of the sales pattern, and it's expected. Don't think that by refusing to buy blind packed boxes you're hurting anything, there are six pre-teen boys behind you waiting for that box.

Another advantage, particularly in cases where there is a large potential line of occasionally interesting models around a smaller core of "always" interesting models, is the distributed risk. The CMG model means that every piece you include in a set goes out the door, regardless of popularity, in-game effectiveness, or production quality. Every piece. There is no risk in producing a few fringe models per set as long as the set has enough sexy stuff to attract the buyers.

Compare this to the traditional model. A miniatures company in the "blister pack" business must gauge how many "Giant Frog w/Wizards Hat" they want to produce, based on percieved use, production quality, and production capacity that could be used for "Cool Elven Hero #14" or "Orc w/Five-Spiked Club". If they guess wrong, the pewter can be recovered, but that's still time and effort spent on a dud.

CMG's live or die as complete games. There are NO duds at the individual miniature level from the point of view of the maker.

Unless you make certain pieces mandatory.
Like GW. I can buy dozens of rank and files troops for about a buck a figure (more or less).

Heroes, Leaders, and Generals cost 10, 20, 30+ per figure and you "need" them for your army.

This could translate better in to the CMG market, if it weren't about playing with handfuls of figures. Also, their "perceived" market value and the actual market value could be quite different. Then expansions change the value.

I played MTG a long, long time ago. There was a time when people gave away Ornithopters. Then the "Enduring Renewal" card came out. As a result, Ornithopters were selling for about a buck.

Yeah, women never collect anything obsessively ;-).

Now I'm off to start my Heather Montana collaborative play CMG, in which the secondary market will exhaust the supply, sell the rare minis at crazy prices, and leave all the middle income girls out of luck.

They's dumb. (Said the the most thick Souther accent possible)

Brian

I thought this thread was going to be about co-axial machineguns – CMG? Collectable Minis Games??

Best explanation I heard was a combination of:

1) Farstar's perceptive comments on the incentives for manufacturers;
2) The same arguments apply for retailers. You don't have to worry about which minis to stock from a range – you just buy a case of the boosters and let the customer find out for themselves what they bought. You're stocking two items – starters and boosters – rather than dozens or hundreds. Makes life so much easier;
3) The "collectible" urge seems very strong in certain segments of the market. Kids and geeks mostly? Some people get off on the thrill of breaking open a booster, others like collecting hundreds of minis;
4) A strong secondary market means more dealers buying cases to crack open. All the manufacturer sees is – even more cases being sold.

It's a pretty clever business model, and well works for all concerned – except anyone who might consider themselves a discerning customer. Old farts like us just don't get it – we have too much invested in "old-fashioned" notions of customer choice, knowing what you're buying, and value for money. We know that the rare pieces are as cheap and easy to make as the commons, and the scarcity is entirely artificial, and we resent it bitterly. Kids don't.

3) The "collectible" urge seems very strong in certain segments of the market. Kids and geeks mostly? Some people get off on the thrill of breaking open a booster, others like collecting hundreds of minis;

Absolutely. And, to be honest, it's not so much a "collectible" urge as it is an out-and-out gambling urge, and CMGs tap directly ino that.

I've read some of the research on gambling, and a lot of the appeal boils down to the fact that some people are wired (partly nature, partly nurture) such that an occasional positive result is a *very* strong incentive to continue the activity. Even a long string of negative results doesn't dissuade the gambler, as long as there's an occasional positive result.

Kids are especially susceptible to the gambling urge because they're still relatively unsophisticated consumers, and their sense of the value of money isn't fully developed.

I'm a little ashamed to admit that I've been drawn in to the CMG trap. I collect the Star Wars CMG, and I still enjoy buying the occasional box. I get a little rush when I crack open a box; it's a mystery – what am I gonna get this time? And I'm not a young kid; I'm 48 years old. But I'm going into the transaction fully cognizant of the risk that I'll get a bunch of duplicate crap figures instead of that new rare figure that I don't have yet.

I see it as somewhat similar to buying scratch-off lottery tickets. It's a form of entertainment, not a wise investment.

Wow! Thanks guys! Great answers!

Tanuki said:

"Old farts like us just don't get it – we have too much invested in "old-fashioned" notions of customer choice, knowing what you're buying, and value for money. We know that the rare pieces are as cheap and easy to make as the commons, and the scarcity is entirely artificial, and we resent it bitterly. Kids don't."

Well, since you included yourself in the group of Old Farts, I'll make a disclaimer that my opinion below is of Old Farts in general and not you in specific. (and, as a point of reference, I'm old but not an Old Fart).

I think part of the reason that Old Farts don't like the collectibility aspect is that they don't want to participate in trading to get rid of some of their figures to get some others that they want.

To participate in trading would mean to participate in a semi-social function and Old Farts just don't like that. If they had to trade with kids or geeks*, that would irritate them more, especially with kids or geeks that they haven't known for years and years.**

There are many Old Farts who have money to burn and would gladly pay EXHORBITANT amounts of money on old, hard to find minis that look like barely sculpted pieces of lead.

I would surmise that many Old Farts could learn a thing or two from kids and geeks who acually socialize while trading CMG figures amongst themselves.

* Many Old Farts are in fact Old Geeks.

** Since kids and geeks haven't known the Old Farts for years and years, they would be less likely to put up with the Old Fart's nonsense.

"I would surmise that many Old Farts could learn a thing or two from kids and geeks who acually socialize while trading CMG figures amongst themselves."

The FLGS has a lot of card floppers and a fair number of CMG players (largely HeroClix). They are two different groups. The card kids are, for the most part, some of the most foul-mouthed, light-fingered, raucous bunch of happy-to-cheat munchkins I've ever encountered. Hopefully this is just a local phenom.

The CMGers are a decade older, at the young end of superhero comic fandom, and a much nicer bunch in general. They will still swear a blue streak if they think they won't get banned for it, but are a different class of player altogether.

The CMGers have begun to mix with the next group, the MWGs who play 40k and Warmachine. A significant number of these are also D&Ders.

There are very few MWGs in the area who indulge in historicals, though the store does have a couple folks who routinely clear them out of the A&A CMG lines. Most of the local historicals gamers are of the "greying" variety, and they don't mingle much with the rest. They do have a lot of crossover with the OBGs, as they recognize that the two are very closely related.

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CMG – Collectable Miniatures Game(rs)
FLGS – Friendly Local Game Store
MWG – Miniatures War Game(rs)
OBG – Old Board Game(rs); in this context, SPI/Avalon Hill.

"To participate in trading would mean to participate in a semi-social function and Old Farts just don't like that. If they had to trade with kids or geeks*, that would irritate them more, especially with kids or geeks that they haven't known for years and years.**"

I am in my mid 30s and collect Heroclix. I mainly get them because I like the figures and sometimes I play with a small group of friends who do not collect. I don't like the collectable aspect of it.

I really don't have anyone to trade with nor the time to go out and find people and places to do so. I end up with a bunch of duplicates. It's not because I don't want to get out and socialize, it's because I don't have the time to do it. I'm sure there are many others of all ages that are in the same situation.

Also, buying something like that without knowing what you are getting kind of stinks. That's why I liked their collectors sets.

darthfozzywig:The argument (and one that I've used myself) that manufacturers should sell sets of Stormtroopers, etc in place of or in addition to randomized sets still plays into the above behavioral tendencies

WotC and Wizkids do this, to an extent; The Star Wars ministures game has had a series of starter sets, all with at least 2 fixed miniatures. In addition, there's the AT-ST on Endor, AT-AT on Hoth and AT-St and friends vs Snow Speeder & friends box. Horrorclix and Heroclix both ahve an extensive selection of themed boxes (Horrorclix has Hellboy, Freddy vs Jason, Aliens and Predators boxes, in addition to the series starters).