"Dice rolling by computer... preferred?" Topic

There are quite a few dice rolling programs available online and I can see them being handy if you don't have dice or are trying to game quietly in a room where the rabid baboons are sleeping. Does anyone prefer to use these programs for playing ? Personally, the tactile experience of rolling the dice, dropping an occasional one and banging my head on the table as I stoop to pick it up is part of the overall gaming experience. Your thoughts?

These things are more commonly used for PBM/PBEM gaming.

I don't do computer assisted minis gaming and I know very few people who do.

Must have real dice….

I've tried the computer dice thing.. and, for me, it just doesn't work… unless ya paint dots on your monitor and roll that…

IMO computers cheat. You can't trust 'em. It will figure out what number you need and 'randomly' not pick it.

Real dice

I've never understood the need for a hi-tech solution to a lo-tech problem

TMP link

Ditto on real dice. There should be no possible need to explain why.

Because reprehensible blackguards, hijackers, and Polynesians masquerading as gamers variously slide, pick up and re-roll, misread, and in other ways CHEAT using dice.

Computers don't. If you have a problem with their selections, UltraOrk, then they probably know you deserve it.

Moreover, fiddling around with dice is a tremendous time-waster. The antics of gamers running their dice through a cocktail shaker sequence, complete with imprecations, consumes hours of gaming time.

Cocked, my eye. It was a "1".

Allen

And then there is the Dice Tower.

Every one of these contraptions I have seen has obviously had more time lavished on its construction than the sum of the terrain on the table, a full quarter of which the Dice tower occupies. A Dice Tower can block the advance of an entire Flames of War Tank Army (tm).

And every one I've seen has been so incompetently engineered that if rolling multiple dice, at least one is certain to go bouncing out of the base and onto the floor, which rather negates the purpose of the exercise.

Find me a player who is capable of taking a handful of dice, quickly rolling them in an out-of-the way corner of the table, without knocking over figures or terrain, or taking out an opponent's eye with a wild bounce, and I'll show you a saint. There ain't a lot of 'em.

Allen

The problem with computer-generated random numbers is making a truly 'random' number generator. Most of them start repeating after a certain number of iterations. Not that a casual gamer would notice, but I took a class in this once and felt I had to add my $.02 USD (although my tuition costs were much higher than that).

Real dice.

Computers aren't really random, if you want to be technical about it. (But in practice it's probably a moot point.)

But my real reason is that it's alot easier to roll a die than a computer. And a lot less expensive.

Dang. The tiger-man beat me to it!

Dice at least give the illusion that you have a chance to win the roll.
Random number generators are not truly random, they have to use a number to start with. But then dice are not truly random either. Ones come up in a higher percentage then they should one most d6's. There was a post that I can't find about dice percentages.

That being said I prefer to roll dice

If you want quiet dice that show up easily on the carpet, I've seen plenty of examples hanging in car windscreens.

Yeah, real dice for me too, for simple reason that the physical act of shaking and rolling the dice is more pleasing than pressing a button.

It's the same reason I generally choose metal figures over plastic when there's an option. They just "feel" better to game with.

010 For Y = #
020 For N = 1
030 For XN = RND 1 to 6
040 Z = XN + Z
050 For N = N+1
060 IF N < Y GOTO 020
070 END

That was easy – but its hard to carry around in an old Crown Royale bag.

Wyatt

One of the first things I ever put on a tape for my TRS-8o!

Allen

The Trash 80! Those were the days…

Computer rolling totally sucks. Gotta roll the bones.

mjc

I'd try computer. The luck I have with the dice are terrible. Maybe that would help.

I am with Lugal Hdan.

Rolling dice is so satisfying, until you lose the roll that is.

I'm definitely in the diceless camp. But I don't just want the computer to roll the dice it should also look up the result. I'm frankly amazed there aren't more rules that use the power of the PC to get rid of dice, charts and record keeping. I love the PC for that because many games end up looking like an audit with all the record sheets, charts, dice and assorted clutter.

"a full quarter of which the Dice tower occupies. A Dice Tower can block the advance of an entire Flames of War Tank Army (tm)."

Just think what ya could block with a 'puter ? :0 <chuckle>

Most wargamers fell they have more influence over the outcome if they roll the dice – or perhaps just more opportunity to cheat?

Interesting post. The results are pretty much what I expected -- some people like the tactile feel & control of rolling dice, others like the quick resolution of the computer.

I'm currently developing a computer-moderated wargame (also will be available in basic book format as well) and this is an issue I'm dealing with (dice rolling). The program is being designed to let players chose whether they roll the dice and simply provide the final result as input, let PC roll the dice for everything, and actually combinations thereof (eg: PC could roll to handle discipline/morale tests, but players wish to roll dice for combat). That way, players can decide just how much control they wish to give over to the computer -- always good to give people choices!

On the dice tower issue, I own two of the VixenTor Games towers and have found that they work just great -- they hold a whole pile of dice without the problem of dice skipping wildly out of the tray like Allen alluded to. Definitely worth considering if you've got the table space for them.

I'm frankly amazed there aren't more rules that use the power of the PC to get rid of dice, charts and record keeping

Because they take more time than using wetware. The computer has to be told what is firing, what its factors are (even if the factors are inbuilt, there are modifiers) and possibly even the target's values.

Example:
I have a T34 firing at a Panzer IV. I roll the dice, mentally add any factors, compare the chart and get a result. 20 seconds, max.

To do that on a computer I have to first move over to where the computer is, type in T34/85 firing and a Panzer IV G receiving, type in any modifying factors, ask for the dice roll, and get the result, then move back to the figures. There is no way that is ever quicker than using dice and tables.

Even once the computers will take verbal instructions, so that one mere says "Computer -- T34/85 firing at Mark IV, deduct one for moving, result?" it would still be quicker to do it yourself.

Most computer-moderated games have a referee/umpire manning the computer. The players don't run back & forth and do anything other than communicate with the ref.

In that case, Sultan, they have to tell the umpire the required situation, the data has to be entered, and then the information has to be relayed back. It also requires an extra person (as a person who often solo games, this is an issue).

Transferring information to and fro is never going to be quicker than picking up a dice and rolling it -- unless the game has fiendishly difficult tables (which I accept is sometimes the case, especially in naval games).

Playing with hand painted lttle lead men, I want the full tactile experience. Give me dice.

If I want a computer game, there are some great computer games. When I want to push lead, I want to roll the bones as well.

"Most computer-moderated games have a referee/umpire manning the computer"

If the price of networked palm-top devices crashes, like really crashes, to the point where I can afford to hand one to every player at the table, I might be way interested on computer-moderated wargames. As it is, I see that bottleneck as a real problem over two players.