"Napoleonic Fantasy Wargaming" Topic

OK, the title's a bit of an oxymoron, maybe, but it fits my army! If I may explain…
I spent a lot of years travelling through Europe and the UK and found it very difficult to maintain regular contact with wargaming clubs. I also found, when I did attend with my Brit or Fr figures, that there was generally some grumbling on the line of "Oh…, if we want a balanced game then Jim (or Mike, or John, or Barry, or Dave) won't be able to use his cccxxx Corps (or Umpteenth Division). so I decided to take a page from "Charge". I invented my own German state, The Margravate of Upper Northern Westphalia" and built my own army!
Back in the day the only figures that were readily available in a wide range were 25mm Hinchcliffe and Minifigs. I loved the Hinchcliffe artillery pieces and associated equipment, but loathed their figures, so I ended up with an army of Minifigs with Hinchcliffe artillery. Moreover, since it was an army that never existed, it could fight either with or against the French (or Prussians, or Austrians or Brits). It also allowed me to mix and match various types of troops of various nationalities and decide upon their uniforms for myself. I had tremendous fun doing just that, and when I had completed the army (small but perfectly formed) I found that I could join in with wargames, even though on more than one occasion my Infantry and Cavalry fought on opposite sides.
Obviously, this couldn't work with re-fights of historical battles, and I never tried to introduce my army into one. If I turned up at a club and there was a re-fight of Marengo, or Austerlitz, or even (Gods forbid) Waterloo, then I would either sit on the sidelines and observe, or beg a sub-command from whomever had the biggest army on the table.
In those far-off days wargaming was meant to be, and was fun. Sure we would be serious about our historical research, but we were first and foremost gamers, not historians.
If anybody is interested, then I would be glad to explain the composition and uniforms of my own little army.

Sure. What nationality are the figures you used? Uniform colors, etc.?

In those far-off days wargaming was meant to be, and was fun. Sure we would be serious about our historical research, but we were first and foremost gamers, not historians.

A man after my own heart.

Welcome. We could use a few more like you ;0)

I don't know where you live Byrnthelm, but if you ever get to the mid atlantic area of the US you would be welcome to bring your army to my Napoleonic games. I like your attitude.

Interesting idea – would love to see some pictures.

I've been tempted to do the same.

vtsaogames – Greetings!

I went to various nationalities for my figures. The 12 battalions of Line Infantry were 1815 Brunswick Line, as were the gunners (both horse and field) using only the Brunswick field artillerymen, but cunningly painted to show a distinction between the two branches. The three battalions of Foot Guards (Garde Regiment zu Fuss) were French Line Grenadiers. The single rifles battalion were Prussian fusiliers. The 2 heavy cavalry (Ritter) were Dutch/Belgian cuirassiers while the 4 Leichte Dragoner regiments were French Line Chasseurs a Cheval. I had no hussars or uhlans, although I did toy with the idea of using Polish Line Lancers at one time.

Unit Organisation

All infantry battalions were 48 bayonets strong, divided into six 8-man coys, giving two full bases per coy. Uniforms were identical in the line battalions, except that the Right Flank Coys had red shako tufts, the centre coys had light blue tufts and the Left Flank Coys had green tufts. The battalions were organised so that they could form part of a three battalion regiment or individual battalions on the British pattern.

The cavalry were organised in regiments of 32 sabres, divided into 4 sqns each of 8 men.

The artillery (3 field coys, 2 horse tps) were each of 2 guns. Horse artillery guns had a detachment of 3 gunners, while field artillery guns had 4 man detachments. The guns were all Hinchcliffe French 8pdrs, hooked in to British howitzer limbers and drawn by 4 British horses each.

Each unit had an officer, trumpeter/drummer and ensigns/cornets as appropriate.

Uniforms

The basic line infantry uniform was a Prussian Dragoon Blue coatee, worn with grey overalls (buff breeches with black gaiters were envisaged for full-dress – see cavalry below). White cross-belts supported cartridge pouch and bayonet, a black knapsack with rolled blanket was worn on the back.

Regiment Erherzog Karl-Wilhem, (IR 1) blue facings, gold/yellow lace
Regiment Graf von Stulpnagel, (IR 2) scarlet facings, silver/white lace
Regiment Kaiser Wilhelm (IR 3), buff facings, white/silver lace
Regiment Freiherr Franz von Lippe (IR 4), black facings, gold/yellow lace
Garde Regiment zu Fusse, crimson facings, gold/yellow lace
Schutzen Bataillon – Green coatees, and dark grey breeches worn with black knee gaiters. Facings were black and lace was silver/white. Cross belts and musket slings were black.

Facings were worn on collar, cuffs, turnbacks and shoulder straps. Only the garde wore epaulettes, and these were yellow piped crimson for the ORs and gold for the officers. All cross-belts were white, as were musket slings. Officers sashes were dark blue.

Both regiments of Ritter wore brass helmets with a black woollen crest, a blue (as for the infantry) coatee, buff breeches and black boots. All ranks wore buff gauntlets. Trumpeters wore reversed colours, a white woollen crest and epaulettes in the regimental lace.

Ritter Regiment Erherzogin Anna-Maria Nr 1 – Scarlet facings, gold/yellow buttons and lace.

Ritter Regiment Kronprinz Erwin Nr 2 – Blue facings, silver/white buttons and lace.

Both regiments were mounted on black horses, the trumpeters riding greys. Horse furniture for both regiments was patterned on the French Cuirassier (they were mounted on Minifigs Fr Cuirassier horses). Fleeces were black (white for trumpeters) and shabraques and valises in the facing colour (reversed again for trumpeters).

The Leichte Dragoner Regiments were French Line Chasseurs a Cheval mounted on (for a change) on their own horses!

Uniform was a dark blue coatee with dark grey overalls. Facings were worn on collar, cuffs, turnbacks and shoulder straps and as a double stripe down the outside of the overall legs. Headgear was a black shako with a dark blue plume worn at the front. Trumpeters did not wear reversed colours. Horse furniture was a black fleece and a dark blue shabraque with a double row of edging in the facing colour.

Leichte Dragoner Regiment von Ahlberg, Nr 1, crimson facings,silver/white lace
Leichte Dragoner Regiment von Mulheim, Nr 2, light blue facings, silver/white lace
Leichte Dragoner Regiment Erherzog Wilhelm-Josef, Nr 3, Buff facings, gold/yellow lace
Leichte Dragoner Regiment Graf Manneheim, Nr 4, White facings, gold/yellow lace.

All ranks rode bay or chestnut horses.

The artillery uniform was dark blue throughout with black facings and gold/yellow lace. The field artillery only wore the facing colour as piping on collar, cuffs, etc, while the horse gunners wore full facings piped yellow. Mounted gunners rode French Chasseur horses and had a trumpeter per troop, while the field gunners had a drummer per coy.

As you can see, it wasn't a very big army, but I had lots of fun picking, choosing and painting my figures, and even more fun playing them. With such a small army it was quickly noticeable that some units performed creditably, while others were consistently bad! Strange, huh?

Byrhthelm,

Sounds like you had/have a great time with your army. There are a number of people who do imagi-nation wargaming with SYW era armies (including me) and a few with Napoleonic era armies. You might want to check out the following blogs:

emperor-elector.blogspot.com

link

And maybe join the Old School Wargamers Yahoo group. I think you would fit in quite well.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for the links – I've had a quick look and will certainly re-read them when I have the time. The 18th Century has always had an appeal, but considerations of time, space and cash have (so far) prevented me from indulging myself even more than I already have!

And thanks to all for your support and interest. Having read some of the more vitriolic posts here I was half expecting to be consigned to the darkest depths for not taking the period seriously enough!

I was half expecting to be consigned to the darkest depths for not taking the period seriously enough!

You're OK for the moment. I don't think Dave's about

I imagine your thread title will hold an almost magnetic attraction…

Sounds like great fun! Too bad I've already painted up most of my French and Anglo-Allied armies. Ah well, next lifetime.

It's supposed to be fun, we play with toys, and imagination never hurt anyone.

I collect Britains toy soldiers, which is expensive, and they once made a couple of sets of fantasy toy soldiers that are now extremely rare and prohibitively expensive.

So, welcome and keep on posting. This is great.

Sincerely,
Kevin

You sir, are no heretic.

Back in my H.S. and college days my best friend and I each had non historical Napoenic armies. They were old Airfix, we took a page from C.S. Grant and built our own miniature campaign.

I did have Scots infantry so my army had a little bit of a "british flavor".

I would gladly play with any opponent, who was somewhat well behaved, regardless of how well painted or accurate the facings. If you are ever in the Indianapolis area I would be proud to game with you.

Interesting…

I've "toyed" with the idea myself.

I was thinking of something on the lines of an ACW reb army (painting scheme wise) using Napoleonic figures.

Weird though… I must admit.

Ray (alias Lava)

Mr Hollins will very definitely not approve (if it's not in "Kreig" it didn't happen) but I think this is a fabulous idea. Must've been fun – great way to introduce some new younger players too because they need not fear some idiot coming up to the table and announcing that the "Pink Lancers of Antwerp" did not wear purple socks until after March 1813 or some such rubbish.

Well done,

Nick

Well they didn't. They were puce.

yeah, the guys in my group toyed with this idea a while back, The idea was to design an army in every way possible. Troops types, regimental distinctions, colours and uniforms and also a history. It was designed on a fictitious continent and boarders and cities, towns, rivers and all manor of other things also.

The uniforms some of the guys came up with were beautiful, one of the guys used SYW Prussians with blue over coats and white shirts with read pants. His guard were painted in Black uniforms with silver trim etc they were simply stunning. He is a great painter btw.

I am all for this but you have to have guys dedicated to going full on with it. Some guys in our group were only lukewarm to the idea and it fell down in the end. I say go for it and Good luck to you, give us updates please.

Shane

Did anyone ever have the idea of making a Napoleonic allied elite army to fight a general enemy (whomever)? You could have highlanders, Latour Dragoons, RHA, Guard Grenadiers a Cheval, French Guard horse artillery, Russian and Prussian cuirassiers, Saxon Guard du Corps, Scoot's Left Division, etc. all massed and organized in divisions and corps something along the line of the allied forces that fought in the Boxer Rebellion in 1900.

An idea, anyways.

Sincerely,
Kevin

haha Kevin,

No one in his right mind would fight against such an army ;-p unless given 10 times the points to match it hehe

Yep, if you want vitriol, we got it!

err ?

I don't think I am being condesending or vitriolic n any way ? What I said to Kevin was all tongue in check, Kev would understand that…

"it wasn't a very big army"

I dunno. 16 battalions X 48, 6 cavalry regiments X 32 and 10 guns sounds like a huge army to me. I have a bunch of armies, all smaller than what you are fielding. And most of mine are 15mm.

I suppose it's all relative. One of my semi-regular opponents had 2 complete corps of the 1815 Prussian Army, with inf bns at 40 figs and cavalry regts at (I think) 18 and 24 figs, depending on whether they fielded three or four sqns, plus supporting artillery at 4 guns per coy/tp. All at 25mm. It had taken him literally years to collect and paint and must have cost him 100s of pounds.
He was a fanatical researcher as far as his interests (1813-1815) went and he assured me that his units and figures were correct down to the last detail. I believe he had even managed to get hold of (copies?) of the original strength returns for the Waterloo campaign. He was a sign-writer by trade, so as one would expect his figures looked phenomonal.
However, he all a little bit too serious for my taste. If he couldn't field at least one corps, he wasn't interested.
Still, I always figured that was his loss.

I like your style, play to enjoy in whatever way makes you happy.

Shane wasn't doing anything wrong. I understood him perfectly and he wasn't being vitriolic or condescending at all. Gentlemen, we need to keep a sense of humor and not get overly sensitive.

However, we should also be mindful that everyone's sails need to have some wind in them and not to deflate anyone too completely…

Sincerely,
Kevin

Agree completely with Kevin – lets lighten up a bit folks. On this board and particularly this thread we're talking about playing with Toy Soldiers!!

Nick
(No one died, or even got injured, in the writing of this post)

Byrhthelm,

Welcome, I sense a kindred spirit, and one to be rated as "veteran" or above.

Would be perfectly happy to face an invented army. It's their combat capability that matters most after all.

Footslogger,

'Veteran'? 'Veteran'!!! I will have you know sir, that as an ex-horse artilleryman I am an Elite! :-)

Ah, well, you did say "…or above", so I shall refrain from sending my friends to call upon yours.

As far as combat abilities go, I have NEVER forgiven the Garde Regiment zu Fusse for breaking when they were attacked by a Prussian Landwehr Battalion. Yep, all three Garde battalions broke and RAN. If I had been Generalleutnant Hasselblut I would have had them stripped of their distinctions and made into a penal regiment… but then he always was a soft-hearted chap. On the other hand there was the time when a squadron of the von Ahlberg Leichte Dragoner Regiment made a flank charge against the 12th Cuirassiers and routed them, and then again… nah,… too boring!

Yes, my Generals and Colonels had names and characters… as did one or two of the R&F.

Back in the 70's my group used to use 25mm Napoleonics, all since gone one way or the other. I had a battalion of Bavarian line infantry, can't recall what regiment. They were plain vanilla in game terms. Yet they never failed to form square when charged, and never broke before contact. They did lose fights when outnumbered or outclassed, but never disgraced themselves.

Whereas we had French Guard cavalry that had been beaten by Cossack, etc…

I had a brigade of Prussian line infantry 9 battalions strong. Their first time in action, they marched up as reinforcements in a column of battalion attack columns. The French put a hit on the lead battalion with round shot. It broke. The rest of the regiment broke. So did the other two regiments, all from one hit. Worse than the insult, the rules we used had the fugitives run twice as far as they had come forward. So it would take two turns to get back to where they had run from. And the rules we were using back then took an hour per turn. So I could turn around and go see a movie before getting to roll any dice.

@ Byrhthelm,

Put up your sword, sir, put up your sword – I freely acknowledge you as a gentleman and a true elite.

As an ex solicitor (= attorney, sort of) I fear a penal regiment would be too good for me!

@Footslogger,

well, there's a certain amount of justice on your side if you mean veteran in the anno domini sense! :-)

"Lawyers! Hah, call 'em the 'Devil's Own'!" (said by George V (I think) on reviewing The Inns of Court Lancers Yeomanry)

A similar idea posted on th 18th C. Discussion board:
TMP link
(since most H&M Imagi-Nations are set in the Lace Wars times, following the 30 years old tradition of C. Grant's 'The Wargame!' and P. Young's 'Charge!.

And as depicted it's NOT 'Napoleonic Fantasy' (which would imply witches, sorcerey, evil eye.. not to speak of Elves (Castle Falkenstein fashion), vampires, werewolves, ghouls or even the Great Cthulhu Him (It?)self.
Neither it is 'advanced steampunk' -Victorian Sci-FI by Napoleonic times- with steam tanks, Puckle machineguns and war balloons.

It's just playing Napoleonic wargames (not only battles, possibly campaigns) with regiments in fictitious uniforms fielded by imaginary countries. A practice rare indeed among 'Napoleonics' -often hard-boiled 'historicals' / anoraks- but traditional among 18th C. players.

This thread is interesting -thanks Byrhthelm for strating it, and for me I greatly appreciated the description of his army (built along very 'Old School' / Big Battalions lines) -even if 'in the back of my mind' I'll "translate" it into uniforms of WAS cut (the Lace Wars being my favorite period). Hopefully I'll discover other similar armies later on this thread!
BTW, Byrhthelm, what about blogging to post photos, units histories, campaign diaries, battle reports, even if 'from the past'?
TMP link
TMP link
Shane Devries, did you per chance kept photos from the 'experiencee' you described in such an appetizing way?

And as for the 'Emperor vs Elector' web campaign, well, time is very elastic in that corner of the Multiverse
TMP link
We had a Napoleonic player, some of us use Napoleonic minis to 'beef up' their forces when playing large battles as 'proxies'… take a look!

Jean-Louis
aka Louys de Monte-Cristo
link
Mad collector of imaginary H&M uniforms

Correction & addition:
- the 'parallel' thread I refered to was indeed posted *also* on the Napoleonic board: sorry, that's the very 1st time I venture here.
- refight of historical battles: C. Grant used is 'fictitious' armies to refight well-known historical battles such as Lobwitz, Mollwitz and Fontenoy, and the illustrated reports once printed in his books and in mag were very well received.
(one of his armies fielded white-clad infantry, so 'moonlighted' as Austrian or French – and for the 'opposition' the photos were B&W then…)

Who knew! There's still some gamers in this board! I thought the "historians" had driven them all away by now

I hope to see some pics one day Byrhthelm. Great attitude btw.

"I hope to see some pics one day Byrhthelm": warmly supported!

When addressing Imaginary Armies 'designers', after posting:
'Pics, pics, pics!'
I can't resist the compulsion to add:
'Blog, blog, blog!'

Cheers,
JL

I dug out the boxes today, and was horrified! I didn't realise my painting of the good ol' days was so awful. Give me a week or two for a re-paint and then the photos (if my Bro will lend me his camera!)

As there seems to be some demand for it, I opened a blog today. It's not much at the moment, just some 'historical' background. Maybe like Topsy, it'll just grow and grow.

obernordwestfalen.blogspot.com

I think you need to make it more clear on you blog that it is fiction, not history.

I respectfully disagree, Don … a valid form of fiction is that which is purposely designed to resemble fact as much as possible.

There is the work 'imagination' in the title, however.

Byrhthelm,
Compliments!
A very well-thought and well presented debut! I appreciate the precaution that " real events are emphasised in Bold, fictional events are emphasised in Italics; it reflects the 'Cult of Historical accuracy' in Napoleonic circles. Among 18th C. wargamers, Imagi-Nations are part and parcel of the Venerable Tradition, thus once stated that 'our' counrty is fictitious we do not even *think* of such 'pedagogical' precaution.

Too bad you don't intend to play the Margravate by Lace Wars times, but at least you gave us its uniform – and for the flags the Coat of Arms / Colour may already that of Napoleonic times? Then, since your country existed already in the 18th C., what about joining the merry 'Emperor vs Elector' (reference to the warring sovereigns in P. Young's classical 'Charge! Or How to play Wargames')
emperor-elector.blogspot.com
TMP link : you have a country, its history, geography, ruling line, uniforms, no need of minis -at most, someday you'd be welcome to post these uniforms using the so handy SYW templates: nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.com )

Best wishes with your project, so original and audacious in your context – looking forward to further posts.

Sincerely,
Jean-Louis
aka Louys de Monte-Cristo
link

Arteis: Well, I can just see some poor student downloading all that as a term paper for a history class. Oh well, I guess it'd serve them right for plagiarizing.

That's just want I was thinking, too, Don, and i concur with your last sentence.

In fact, it would be even funnier if one of the big name authors quoted it … odder things have happened.