"How could Osprey do this?" Topic

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Am I missing something? The cover pix look wrong. They look like M-4 Shermans and Pz IVs to me.

- Jim

Yep look like PZIV to me?

Oh, ye of little faith. It's Osprey! So, therefore there can be no question of Error!

Oops – I think that one slipped by the quality control…

It's a picture of the cover before it ripened. Usually they pick the books when the cover still says "M3 vs. Panzer III" and it ripens in shipping to "M4 versus Panzer IV."

It's the movie version of Kaserine Pass. Therefore we shouldn't point it out, but rather spending money to see it…

Well, the Osprey site didn't have a picture of the cover. However, the description said Pz III and M-3 Grant. So the title appears to be correct. Just the wrong pix.

I emailed them about it. Maybe they'll send me a free copy. (either that or they send me off to be "re-educated" :)

- Jim

Oh, good grief!!!

Can't hold much hope for the text then (If anything like the last one).

Wonder they didn't shove a Chafee on there for the M3 and M47 (painted grey) for the PzIII.

That book isn't slated to be released until May. Often the cover changes between the preprint and the final printing, as the preprint only has a placeholder while the actual artwork is being produced.
This is just a guess, though on osprey's site there is ni pic
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On another note, it's good to see these two AFV's getting some attention.

I was under the vague impression that Lees and Pz IIIs had fought the year before at Gazala, El Alamein etc etc and that their strengths and weaknesses were already well known. Not sure why they picked 1943 for this 'duel'.

I was under the vague impression that Lees and Pz IIIs had fought the year before at Gazala, El Alamein

Who were fighting the Germans at the above Martin?

Not sure why they picked 1943 for this 'duel'.

and who was turning the tide of fascism at Kasserine?

*hint* Osprey is now American owned. Call me cynical ;0)

I too am a little surprised. The sample covers that they send out on pre-publication notices often are different than the ones used during publication.

This looks like a editing error.

*hint* Osprey is now American owned. Call me cynical ;0)

Heavy Sigh!

I hate to be such a snob here but I hit my head last night on an open kitchen cabinet so I will be forthright without hesitation. Never knew you guys held Osprey as the supreme journal of un refutable pictures and information. They are not far from the NY Post in my eyes. Never used them. I like primary source documents not Osprey's back of a cereal box approach.

PZ III has 6 bogy wheels on the ground. That one clearly has 8…just like a PZIV and the other vehicle is definitly a Sherman.

While I have heard referred to as the Reader's Digest of historical topics, I have always felt that the osprey format served two purposes. One was to provide some basic 'bare bones' information and to intice the reader to conduct further in-depth research on their own.

We have adopted this approach with our works at Crimson Books and War Eagle Designs. Even as we finalize text and sorce source availabilities, new works hit the street. In several cases these are very in-depth studies on the proposed topic. It is impossible to be all inclusive.

I have to agree wholeheartedly with CombatPainter. They have pretty pictures and all but the price is too high for me, I'm not willing to pay what they charge for what I get. I use other sources for my painting guides.

Brian

combatpainter…

while I agree that some osprey titles are subpar some are excečptional. Often Osprey books are written by people like Stephen J. Zaloga, Sthephen Turnbull, David Nicolle, Oscar Edward Gilbert or Gordon Rottman, who are considered expert in their fields. Calling osprey books Cereal Box approach is a bit out of place.

Agree with Arrigo. You can't smear such an extensive range with the same brush. Many of the authors are extremely knowledgable.
And it's all very well to go to primary sources if you have the time, where-with-all, etc, or maybe for one or two periods. But as primers, launching off points, or as a casual interest, quick read, Ospreys can hardly be beaten.

I often think that Osprey books are like the fast food of military history, but I really like them. They have consistently inspired my gaming, providing ideas for scenarios, illustrations for painting (how we'll miss Angus McBride!), etc. For my Zulu project a game at a convention peaked my interest, so I picked up a few Ospreys to get acquainted with the period, and they in turn inspired me to buy & paint 500+ minis. Even if you don't like Ospreys you've got to recognize that a lot of lead had been sold because of them (sometimes in relatively obscure periods), which supports the manufacturers, and thus they support the hobby.

Agree with Arrigo. You can't smear such an extensive range with the same brush. Many of the authors are extremely knowledgable.

Not totally against Osprey as a general rule. Can be helpful. Don't think that all authors are simpletons either. I just don't think that the Osprey format and those "dradful" illustrations are the final word. Sorry for having my opinion and voicing it. :)

Got a reply already…

Dear Mr Keats

Thank-you for your email regarding the catalogue visuals for Duel 10: M3 Grant vs Panzer III. Due to the fact that the catalogues and press releases are printed well in advance of the release of the titles themselves, it is often the case that we do not have the final artwork finished before we need to produce a cover image. Consequently, we often use existing artwork of similar, if not exact, subjects to represent the style of the cover art instead of the actual art itself.

Ya, that's a big slip up.

Bearing in mind the slating that Mongoose get for this sort of thing (e.g. the navy P-40 on the cover of VAS: OOB) I think the criticism is well justified :)

Who will ever forget the ACW riverboat with a radio direction finder :)

Combatpainter, if nobody disagreed then there would be nobody to disagree with and things would be prety boring :)

hi i know gordon rottman as he is a member of the yahoo TO&Es group the author of the book he said this below ..

thomas

No mess up. That's a dummy cover borrowing illustrations form Zaloga's Kasserine Pass book. They do that when they don't have the cover artwork completed, which is being done right now. Some peole go bonkers when they see these dummy covers and don't understnd what they are.

Gordo

I am a big fan of Osprey stuff.

"I like primary source documents not Osprey's back of a cereal box approach."

I don't have any vast problem with Ospreys, and for many periods primary documents are both a bit hard to find and a bit hard to read. I really can't be bothered to visit Vienna and wade through the archives with my rather rusty German to figure out what facings one of the infantry regiments wore in 1866, much easier to buy the Osprey…

Hey, I love the Osprey stuff too. I have a bunch on my shelf and more on my "wish list". I was just wondering how they could let this slip. The PzIII vs. PzIV switch I can understand…but "confusing" the Grant an Sherman!

However, I did get an nice email (well, 2 if you count the one from sales) VERY quickly. They said the same thing that THOMASTMCC said.

I guess I just went "bonkers". 8^D

- Jim

I always used Osprey as my jump off in research. Find an overview then move deeper with other publications.

I agree Ospreys are a good starter to a period or subject. however one thing that does bug me which they seem to do an awful lot is have lovely glossy battle maps divided in half (where all the action is) by the spine binding--Rendering it very difficult to read…Just a minor gripe…

All maps everywhere have all the interesting stuff in the bend or just on the edge of the map you have just bought..

I would agree about the maps. I love Ospreys but I don't understand why they can't figure out how to print maps without losing so much of them to the gutter.

I measure my Ospreys by the foot. It's too much trouble to count them.

However, they do suffer from the format. Cram it all into 64 pages, fill half of that with public domain prints (often 50-100 years out of date), throw in 8 color plates, and give the assignment to the guy who just turned in his manuscript on something totally different.

You can't beat the Alexander one with a full page of Rioters, Revellers and Whores, and left out any pikemen.

Have tons of osprey but learned that one has to take them with a grain of salt. Ya gotta read the text and can't simply go with the pics. I've found quite a few uniform differences between text and artists rendition in some.

Paul

I am beginning to lose all faith in Osprey other than the pretty pictures, and even their captions are suspect; I am reading one of the more recent tactics of WW2 volumes, and have already pegged some major errors of omission, and misidentification, and outright wrong data. If this keeps up I['m gonna have one heckuva letter for the author when I get done….

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Don't judge a book by it's cover !

I think these 'versus' books and the comics are silly ideas, but Osprey does come up with some cracking stuff. My favourites are their Battle Orders series, worth every penny!

I'm glad to see that this has now blown over

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