"Shang Dynasty Chinese Weapons Materials" Topic
5 Posts
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Jon the Great | 15 Oct 2003 7:18 p.m. PST |
Shang Dynasty Bronze work is world famous, but only the nobility had asccess to bronze. The common warior had to find other materials to make his weapons out of. I read that heavy use was made of slate for making blades. I had the chance to see some Zhow dynasty arrowheads that were made out of hardened wood. I'm sure the same material was used by the Shang. I have also seen pictures of bone and jade weapons. Anybody eles have any thoughts or knowledge on the subject.
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Saginaw | 15 Oct 2003 10:19 p.m. PST |
Jon, from what I've read a Shang Dynasty army is about as close as you can get to fighting with a somewhat prehistoric army of sticks and stones, excepting for the nobility. By most accounts there are reports that they even practiced human sacrifice for divination, their vanquished enemies providing the fodder. There is also the subject of the almost mythical Hsia Dynasty that preceeded the Shang. One can imagine how that army was armed, and if it followed any type of field organization. I would be surprised if they did. I for one have ALWAYS been fascinated by the ancient Chinese armies; the earlier the better. This past summer I bought a small pack of an Essex Early Shang army, and I can tell you that I was very impressed by it's sculpting and posing. |
Steve at theassaultgroup com | 16 Oct 2003 9:50 a.m. PST |
Hi - have a look at this book Ancient Chinese Bronzes by Ma Chengyuan ISBN 0195837959 it discusses the high volume of farm implements, adzes and axes that have been found in quite well organised sites and the Ge and Ji that have been found (dagger axes and halberd heads) during the Shang period. It appears that they were quite common - it wouldnt surprise me tho if fire hardnd wood, slate, stone or even flint were used by poorer or poss even the Hsia . |
Jon the Great | 16 Oct 2003 6:26 p.m. PST |
I read one of the books on early China by China' premier expert on the Shang Dynasty. In this book he matched up the earlier cultures with the earlier dynasties. The way he discribed them the Hsia Dynasty Emperors acted more like the High Kings of Ireland or kings of the European Middle Ages than traditional Chinese Emperors. Their emperors were more interested in hunting than ruling, and the lords who ruled the nomadic tribes dominated the farm folk. From what I read chariots were dominate and infantry were held in disdain. |
Come In Nighthawk | 03 Nov 2019 8:06 p.m. PST |
Sawyer, Kiethley as well as Shaugnessey (IIRC), and K. C. Chang, all suggest that while the Shang had adopted the chariot from the Siberian Steppe tribes, their nobility used them mainly for hunting, and if they used them at all in combat, it was mainly as command vehicles. There is some question as to their using them in small numbers in combat, but the fact that several "high lords" were buried with upwards of 20 or more chariots (and attendant horses and CREW[!!]), to me suggests MORE than just for hunting!! Albeit, if the "lords" were buried with their entire "contingent," then the number of chariots in a "squadron" or "regiment" in any one Shang "army" would be quite small. On the other hand, the Oracle Bones translations suggest the average Shang "army" was only around 3000 men, and that "armies" of 10,000+ were rather rare. Therefore, such small contingents makes sense. A force of 20 or so chariots in number, backed by some solid infantry, and facing a raiding nomadic tribe which at that time (ca. 1300-1100 BC) was entirely or nearly entirely on foot, aside from possibly a few chariots of their own, might do quite well if the nobles manning the chariots were expert (from all the hunting they did from their chariots), and their infantry were "rock solid!" When the Shang "dynasty" fell, some of the reports that have survived suggest the main Shang army (and its best "generals" among the nobility??) was away in the East on campaign, and a "scratch force" of peasants was assembled; allegedly a LARGE "force," to try to make up in numbers what they lacked in quality. The Zhou usurpers were said to have their entire population outnumbered just by the armed forces of the Shang (and their allies) alone… However, the Zhou brought (allegedly) a force of 300 chariots to the battle, and broke the Shang infantry… The Shang emperor committed suicide by burning his palace down around his own head… The Zhou king initiated a dynasty that lasted about 700 years -- albeit more "de jure," nominally, rather than "de facto" after the mid-700s BC -- but the longest-lived dynasty in Chinese history…. I'm pretty sure I have read where the Chinese still look back to the Zhou dynasty with reverence as the basis for much of their heritage and culture --- Maoism (or Xi-ism?) aside… |
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