"Weekend nazis...was that it?" Topic

What a waste of time….i was expecting some Paxman-esque hardcore expose of the rotten underbelly of modern society…instead we get a limp, leftist docu-comedy about some nazi reenactors who may actually be real nazis….
Showing some SS wannabees spouting schollboy racist rhetoric was nowhere near as shocking as the revelation that the british police force are all right-wing bigots.
I bet there are Labour MP's who are more fascist.
People have been posting about this programme, worrying that anyone associated with WWII militaria will get tarnished as a mass murderer. I don't think it's time to pack up and emigrate just yet….

I think there is more hard core veiws in most pubs. A rather poor report with little sustance. I did feel even slightly outraged.

I expected more, but realised that 30mins wasn't long enough to do anything substantial.

As for the SBG, it only confirmed to me what I had concluded to over the Salute affair.

So much for the BBC airing better programmes than Sky!

"Why does nobody re-enact the holocaust?" Have you seen the size of these people? They have trouble fitting through their tank hatches. It'd take more than stripy pyjamas to kid me they were straved to death, look more like an Andy Pandy convention.

I would love to see one of these exposees where someone reveals the fact that allied sodiers killed thousands of German prisoners and watch the pudgy, bleeding heart, pinko, lefty immediately start tearing his hair out and rending his clothes, "I thought they bought our freedom with their blood, but it's not worth this price!" Then he can immolate himself hopefully, that would make good telly.

Seriously, if the best you can find is 3 ed-up idiots spouting anti-Islamic claptrap then you obviously haven't been down the pub in a few years. Education is the answer, not legislation. Liked the German teacher who summed up the reason why I've never joined in with re-enacting, "Where's the context?"

There was a local news documentary conducted years ago in our sleepy Shropshire village, trying to expose us all as raging xenophobes. It all stemmed from a conversation a crusading newshound must have had with a publican, new to the area and of Afro-Caribbean (sp?) origin. He was ranting on about how the local Oo-Ars were all rascist, cos they boycotted his pub. So newsboy goes off to interview the Chinese people who own the chip shop. They've never had any problems. And the Sikh family who run our Spar. Again, welcomed to the area, no rascism or abuse.
Turns out, of course, that the guy from the pub was disliked not because of his racial background, but because he was a . He left shotly after the programme aired and the newsfool (I believe his name was Richard Uridge) sank into obscurity…..Nick owen does his job on Midlands today now….
I've rambled, but my point is this…as a TV licence payer I've just funded this pile of . I'd like my money back.

i have worked with more people more racist than that, and they dont dress up in ww2 gear, as some one above said, you will find the same stuff being sprouted in any inner city pub, after a few jars of lager.
not a very revealing program, realy, and after all we are allowed free speach, so far in this country, at least they are not waving racist/religious banners and shouting in a demo in the streets, a few unsavoury comments by a buch of drunks!!!!!!

p.s. sorry for the spelling!

what was the idiot trying to prove? I was left wondering what his point was. Was it to ban re-enactment groups, to highlight that a policman dresses up or that the reporter didn't have a clue about the subject matter and had little if any knowledge about ww2. I guess i'll have to watch it again with the sound off to enjoy all that eye candy.

"Why do they all want to be the Germans?"

As Spike Milligan so eloquently put it:
"Words can't describe the wretched appearance of a soldier in a new battle-dress. Size had nothing to do with it. You wore what you got. Some soldiers never left barracks for fear of being seen. Others spent most of their time hiding under trees. The garments were impregnated with an anti-gas agent that reeked like dead camels, and a water-proofing chemical that gave you false pregnancy and nausea. The smell of 500 newly kitted rookies could only be likened to an open Hindu sewerage works on a hot summer night by Delius. To try and 'cure' my B.D. I salted it and hung it outside in thunderstorms, I took it for walks, I hit it, in desperation I sprayed it with Eau de Cologne, it made little difference, except once a sailor followed me home. Overcoats were a huge, shapeless dead loss. If you wanted alterations, you took it to a garage." [Adolf Hitler: My Part in his Downfall. (Penguin 1971)]

Ooh ohh, BBC, Spike was racist and mildly homophobic in that extract, should we lock up his descendants just in case?

How was the convention portrayed?

I'm pretty sure the reporter John Sweeney is the same one that got caught on tape shouting at a Scientologist during another story a few months back. Those two stories at least have been all tacky television sensationalism and no real reporting.

Salute wasn't mentioned in any way shape or form. It was the same john sweeney and i hope the bbc drop him like a brick because he doesn't have a clue. He asked one of the re-enactors why they didn't re-enact the holocaust to balance things out with all the fighting side of the hobby. The guy just didn't understand what he was reporting on.

That Sweeney bloke strikes me as a total waste of oxygen. Clueless just doesn't begin to cover it.

I'm pretty sure the reporter John Sweeney is the same one that got caught on tape shouting at a Scientologist during another story a few months back.

You're right,but he does have a certain amount of comedy value as a reporter ;-)

link

Oh yeah, that Sweeny bloke was the reason I wanted to wash in bleach after watching the programme, no doubt!

I can't believe you sought that out and watched it… wait did I really read this thread?

<sigh>

There were a few points hidden in the programme, that were so subtle that most people probably missed them.

The EU to promote a blanket ban of any Nazi symbolism, and to make public displays of said material a criminal offence, this is something put forwards by the Germans.

The fact that living history groups covering WW2 do very little to promote historical fact, the SBG being a case in point, nothing on their display mentions the fact that the SS undertook other duties. like being KZ guards, or merrily shooting civilians and POWs.

I felt sorry for the poor German lady, who was rather amazed at what stuff they had on sale, after all who exactly does want Hitler staring back at them when they drink their tea?

My favourite Nazi, the lad going on about thickos having too many kids, I almost found myself agreeing with him!! ;-]]

Meh. That would be funny instead of predictable if it weren't that .

They all appear to subscribe to the same idea – .

"The EU to promote a blanket ban of any Nazi symbolism, and to make public displays of said material a criminal offence, this is something put forwards by the Germans."

And that'll impact on all sorts of things – like kits and stuff that aren't already 'sans swasticas', and, of course, the only countries in the EU which will bother to implement and enforce the ban will be Germany and the UK.

"My favourite Nazi, the lad going on about thickos having too many kids, I almost found myself agreeing with him!!"

My wife's comment at that point?

"Well, I entirely agree – and start with him." :-)

"Well, I entirely agree – and start with him." :-)

Heh. Good point well made – unlike the documentary, which seemed to be a half hour rant about some fat dislikable s. The highlight was the running policeman…

Discussion of any EU ban on nazi symbolism should adjourn to the Current Affairs board, please.

I think that the real problem is discerning between the SS's Military and civilian or political activities. i dont condone any of their actions, naturally, however, any kind of attempt to stifle/ban/prohibit really just means we are trying to change history and cover up.

One way of looking at it is the WWII re-enactors are meant to be doing a hobby and putting on a show, what would your reaction be to a wargaming club putting on a WWII game at a show involving ss figures and selling all the ss and nazi paraphenalia on an adjoining table?

What bothers me about them is that they don't appear to have any sense about what they're doing.

Stamping swastikas over the queen on coins. What in the hell is that about, and how do they think that's not going to upset people?

I'm not really sure that counts as being a real nazi. I think that counts as thinking you're some sort of rebel but not actually being bothered to try overthrowing the state…

The most annoying thing is that WE'RE AT WAR. Two of the damned things. Fighting hopelessly on the basis of a lie. Meanwhile in the rest of the world everyone's sitting around trying to decide if we're going to let the populations of Dafur, North Korea or Zimbabwe starve or be tortured or both because it might be political inconvenient to intervene..

And the best thing the BBC can find to worry about is a bunch of guys who think selling swastikas is somehow rebellious.

They're idiots, but I'm not sure they're nearly as dangerous to our democracy as encouraging political apathy in the rest of the population.

chronoglide
I bet there are Labour MP's who are more fascist.

I used to be a member of the Labour party, and a trade union. I also used to be a member of the National Front in my teens.

I have NEVER heard so much racism (Suppossed jokes), in the bar after the meeting, as I have at the local labour club, or the trade union meeting.

They made the NF look like Kindergarten amateures.

Awkward questions: Organisers disclaiming responsibility for David Irving. Sorry, he just invaded their site, set up a sizeable stall and started selling books? How is that not their responsibility? Ditto the Hitler mugs? No one is going to innocently have that in the house?

However- there is an element of denial here. Might not Afro-British be offended by Victorian soldiers? Irish by New Model Army? Plus the fact Brits and US armies did plenty of massacring of POWs when the situation 'demanded'? War is horrible, soldiers do nasty things. WWII Germany didn't have monopoly on atrocity.

WWII doesn't attract all the scum, I used to be in C5th re-enactment and I spoke to another group who had had a member who wanted to be a dark age Germanic out of Wagnerian/racial beliefs, they quickly got rid of him. (Bizarrely enough, he was short and dark haired! Ironically our group once had a tall blond who looked extremely Nordic, but who insisted on playing a Pict!)

"what would your reaction be to a wargaming club putting on a WWII game at a show involving ss figures and selling all the ss and nazi paraphenalia on an adjoining table?"

I'd welcome the tabletop game and complain about the SS/Nazi items to the show organisers.

"Organisers disclaiming responsibility for David Irving."

You may not LIKE his opinion[1]. I don't either. I think he's bonkers.

But I'm not sure we should start down a road of banning the sale of books whose views don't happen to agree with someone.

Because the Bible, the Koran, all seven Harry Potters and "The God Delusion" all fall under a similar definition of "books that someone would like banned" because the views expoused are offensive.

This wasn't Jon Sweeney's finest (half) hour, but I was interested to see a bit more about the SS Group, who I found to be rather sinister; it confirmed my feelings that all the fuss made about them appearing at Salute was, indeed, warranted.

Simon

BTW: Bck i nthe early days of e-mail, someone in our roleplaying society was contacted by a group of Celtic supremacists in the USA.

They asked if said person could furnish then with a picture of a true modern day Welshman for their literature.

He asked what specifically they wanted, and got the reply 'someone dark and muscular'.

Quick perusal of their website confirmed the suspicions of the sort of people that were being dealt with.

So my friend e-mailed a photograph of Colin Jackson….

(who is Welsh, was at the time a world champion 100m sprint hurdler and of Caribbean descent).

Never heard from them again….

LOL!

That's a good one Bangorstu!

Its a case of the sublime to the ridiculous

Excellent re Colin Jackson!!!

Re Irving; Holocaust denial is not quite in the same league as most other controversial opinions. As discussed it is a crime in Austria and Germany. If it was just an extreme revisionist take on history in itself it would be tolerable, but to make such a cognitively dissonant claim motives like racist views toward Jews and/or sympathy for the political aims of the Nazis must be assumed.

If I ran an event I would have the perogative to decide exactly who trades and who doesn't. If I knew anyone to have a dodgy reputation I would decline their pitch fee out of consideration to their customers.

Good job the Celtic Supremacists didn't ask for tall, dark and muscular or they would have been showing their ignorance.

Stu,
Thanks for the best laugh of the day.

hi KatieL

i like your opinions !!!
i have read a lot of postings about weekend nazis but you are one of the few who realy got the point !!!
sweeny tried to find a story where there was none….
so he had to fail !!! but how commes that you think people were upset about the coins ???

"Stamping swastikas over the queen on coins. What in the hell is that about, and how do they think that's not going to upset people?"

i have only seen smiling faces on the show and no one was upset at all !!!

I felt he found a story, if only the sad middleage Brits squeezing themselves into SS uniform and saluting the rather scary Uberthingmymanfuhrer with the racist views.

And happily most of us in the UK rather prefer our coinage sans swastikas, Mr Wehrwolf.

Regarding the racist banter of these SS re-enactors, I was rather surprised to hear anti-Muslim sentiments expressed. If they were really knowledgeable about the Waffen SS, they would surely be aware of the 13th Handschar Division?
In fact, fascism and Islam always seem to have been easy bedfellows: – Moors in Franco's army, Libyans/Somalians in Mussolini's African forces, Hitler cosying up to the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the Arab Legion of the Wehrmacht, etc.

The interesting thing about this controversy is what it reveals about the attitudes of the Blair's Broadcasting Corporation and its ingrained left wing bias. Any objection to the SS being re-enacted could equally be applied to those who re-enact the Red Army. (I've met some of the UK Red Army re-enactors and found them interesting and learnt much from them, personally) But if one were to put a point like this to the Sweeney 'reporter', I just know what a dumb and blank expression would be triggered. Doubt he's ever heard of the Katyn Forest or the Gulags.

Corkonian,try to remember old boy that they are re-enactors and as such are unlikely to have the prejudices of the real mcoy, just those of many of their modern day countrymen. Kind regards, Ivan.

Yes we can pull the documentary apart but Combat 18, David Irving and the vile comments (one about the gas chamber) all stepped beyond my tolerance levels.

They are all scum.

TheRymer,
I'm with you, vile people.

Corkonian, that's spot on!