"GAU-8 Avenger on a AFV?" Topic

Could the A-10 "Warthog"s GAU-8 "Avenger" 30mm rotary cannon be mounted on an armored fighting vehicle, and if so why is it not now? (Or is it?)

It COULD be mounted on an AFV chassis – but why would you want to? There are many more effective weapons to put on AFV's than this cannon.

Isn't that gun about twice as long as a VW Beetle? I would imagine the size, plus the mass of ammo, would rule it out as an AFV weapon.

Though I would stand correcting; And in any event, why aren't there more rotary cannons on vehicles in general?

Not an Avenger, but a 20mm Vulcan was mounted on a M113 for anti-aircraft work.

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I'm not an expert, but my guess is that autocannon-caliber rotaries are expensive overkill as IFV/AFV armament, and their high rate of fire is more useful on or against aircraft than in a ground-to-ground engagement.

-Mel

IIRC the 25mm variant was mounted on an LAV variant, for AA work.

The GAU-8 is effective because it attacks the upper and rear portions of armor, the fast rate of fire means you can put a lot of DU on the target and thus increase the likelihood of a kill while zooming along at 400mph. On an AFV it takes only 1 30mm shell to penetrate armor (if its going to penetrate), so firing a burst of 100 rounds is indeed overkill (especially when you can burst 3 rounds and do the same job).

Damon.

Damon, I had read that, too. It can be done, but it's overkill.

About a decade ago, the Navy experimented with mounting a GAU-8 on a LCAC for beach defense elimination/suppresion. Don't know what the current status is for the project, but the pictures were impressive as all get out.

Ok, I have to agree that against modern AFVs it is overkill.

Now, for the Sci-Fi/Gaming view, How about using it against something like the Posleen hoard?

The PIVAD was 20mm I believe. The Mini-gun is generic name and that can be found on lots of things.

What you really want is the Stryker MGS with HEP/HE, KE, HEAT and Cannister rounds. Very versitile and deadly to all it sees. Of course with it's various armor configurations its not as survivable as a tank but it's fast.

CorpCommander, that sounds rather useful – How does the loader switch between ammo types, or is it a case of selective loading? I've always wonderd why more weapons with autoloaders have not borrowed the "Coke Machine" system that was adapted for the bomb dispenser on the Orion Pulse Rocket – A clean, simple and proven technology, er the coke machine not the Orion. :)

Warmaster Charlie…

I can tell you what happened to the LCAC program of mounting the GAU-8…

The LCAC would ground/skirt deflation due to the recoil of the weapon… ACVs are just really sensitive to maintaining a level plenum chamber above their skirt… Tilt it just a little and it begins to deflate really rapidly… causing the ACV to ground itself (or sink if at sea).

Seems that they had two options… Lower the rate of fire, making the 30mm gun less accurate, or decrease the bore size (20mm is about the largest that can be mounted on existing ACVs and not knock them off their skirts…

I am SURE that I have been over this before…

If you are already grounded (having delivered your payload…) Then the higher recoil is no problem… It may be that they may keep the GAU-8 for this role… But using it as a mobile weapon… Just doesn't work…

Wikipedia has the photo of a VW Beetle in front of a GAU-8

/Oerjan

Thanks, J.I., for the info. I had last seen info about that program in The Proceedings about a decade ago, but am no longer a member of Naval Institute, and my webfu was weak yesterday. :)

There is also a maintenance concern; is a GAU-8 the type of weapon that the common infantryman/crewman maintain in a field environment? There would seem to be a lot of moving parts that would be hard to maintain outside of a hanger/workshop. Chain guns are a more practical option.

As for the MGS, the rounds are stored in two separate carousels (sp?) that can be chosen between by the gunner. Unfortunately, there are only 9 rounds per, 18 total, before someone has to get out and reload. 18 rounds is not even a firefight. You can't establish a firebase after a contact with 18 rounds.

SMc.

It would have to be a big, heavy, AFV. At that point, why not just put a tank gun on it, or an OTO Melara 76mm autocannon (that's been proven on a Leopard I chassis).

The M-163 Vulcan had a 20mm, and there's indeed an LAV-25 with something on it for air defence (at least as a prototype).
-Kle.

Another vote for the overkill aspect – the current regular 20-30 mm autocannons already have quite a decent ROF, more than enough against ground targets.

Aircraft and anti-aircraft weapons benefit from the super-high ROF due to very short engagement periods and very high velocities of the aircraft.

Griefbringer

Just had a thought: what about a weapon system that fired the depleted uranium round used by the GAU-8 but not as a rotary cannon? Maybe a 5 or 10 round clip like in the old shipboard AA guns?

There's also the 37mm rotary gun on the US T-249 Vigilante prototype.

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Griefbringer, that would make a lot of sense for non-AFV use for GAU-8 style guns.

However, just to play Satan's Lawyer here, what about a small calibre three-barrel rotary HMG as a support weapon or simple antipersonnel weapon? Like on some choppers, but say less than 15mm?

"what about a weapon system that fired the depleted uranium round used by the GAU-8 but not as a rotary cannon?"

Ever played Twilight:2000? I think that featured DU rounds for 25mm autocannons and the like.

"what about a small calibre three-barrel rotary HMG as a support weapon or simple antipersonnel weapon?"

Probably would only work with vehicle mounts – and it would burn a lot of ammo (12.7mm cartridges are a bit weighty and bulky, especially in large numbers).

If antipersonnel weapon with high ROF is needed, there is still this one WWII design called MG42.

Griefbringer

Griefbringer, oh yes indeed MG42 :) Not a Twilight:2000 gamer, but I get the idea on DU rounds – Personally, in my games, Osmium would tend to have replaced that as sources of this metal become available in bulk.

Like they say in the Marines, the only replacement for a Ma Duece . . . Is another Ma Deuce.:)

Currently osmium seems to be so pricy that a 20mm round made out of it would probably cost more than an anti-tank missile.

As for RoF, you can reach quite high rates even with ordinary single-barreled autocannons. For example the Soviet ZU-23-2 (a 23mm caliber design dating back to late 50's) has a ROF of 1000 rpm per barrel.

And if you want higher ROF, one simple approach is to go for a twin-barreled (or even four-barreled) version, though this is usually only used in AA-tanks.

Griefbringer